“Bhedaat
ganah vinashyanti bhinnah supajapah parai
Tasmaat
sanghaat yogeshu prayateran ganah sada”
Therefore a republic should always strive to maintain good relations among the people”
-Shantiparva, Mahabharat, Chapter 108
The
issue of secularism is nowadays being widely discussed, and so it is necessary
to understand its real significance in India. For this, it is first necessary
to understand our country.
As I
have mentioned in detail in my article ‘What is India’ (see my blog
justicekatju.blogspot.in and the video on the website kgfindia.com), India is
broadly a country of immigrants, like North America. Probably 92-93 % people
living in India today are descendants of immigrants, who came mainly from the
North West, looking for a comfortable region to settle down. The original
inhabitants of India are the pre-Dravidian tribals or adivasis (STs) e.g.
Bhils, Gonds, Santhals, Todas, etc. who are hardly 7-8% of our population
today.
People
came to India because people migrate from uncomfortable areas to comfortable
areas. India was a paradise for agricultural societies, because it has level
land, fertile soil, plenty of water for irrigation, etc. Why should anyone
migrate from India to, say, Afghanistan, which is cold, covered with snow
several months in a year, mountainous, and uncomfortable? Hence people poured
into India for thousands of years seeking a comfortable life.
These
immigrants who came into India brought their own language, religion, customs,
etc, and this is the reason for the tremendous diversity in India, so many
religions, castes, languages, ethnic groups, etc.
We
may compare India with China. Our population is about 120 crores, while China’s
is about 130 crore, and China’s land area is over twice ours. However, there is
broad (though not absolute) homogeneity in China, all Chinese have Mongoloid faces,
they have one common written script called Mandarin (though spoken dialects are
different), 95% Chinese are of one ethnic group called Han, etc. In India on
the other hand, there is tremendous diversity.
It
follows that to keep the country together and take it on the path of progress
the only policy which will work is secularism and giving equal respect to all
communities. This was the path shown by the great Emperor Akbar who through his
policy of Suleh-e-kul (i.e. Universal toleration of all religions) gave equal
respect to all religions, at a time when Catholics and Protestants were massacring
each other in Europe. Akbar was the real creator of modern India, and his
policy was followed by Jawaharlal Nehru and his colleagues who gave us a modern
secular Constitution, and this is what is holding our country together, despite
all our problems.
Secularism
does not mean that one cannot practice one’s religion. Secularism means that
religion is one’s private affair unconnected with the State, which will have no
religion.
India
is presently passing through a transitional period in our history, from feudal
agricultural society to a modern industrial society. This is a very painful and
turbulent period, as a study of European history from the 16th to 19th
Centuries (when Europe was passing through its transition) discloses, full of
turmoil, wars, revolutions, social churning and chaos, intellectual ferment,
etc. It was only after going through this fire that modern society emerged in
Europe. India is presently going through this fire, we are passing through a
very agonizing period, which I guess will last for another 15-20 years.
In
this period it is the patriotic duty of all Indians, particularly the
intellectuals and the media, to help our country get over this transition
faster and with less pain. This they can do by promoting modern rational and
scientific ideas and combating backward feudal ideas and superstitions.
In
this transitional age the role of ideas becomes extremely important, and hence
the role of intellectuals and the media becomes extremely important. We may
recall the role played by Voltaire, who attacked religions bigotry in France
and Europe, Rousseau who attacked the entire feudal system, Thomas Paine, who
proclaimed the Right of Man, etc. Our intellectuals and the media should do the
same.
Today the bitter truth is that most
of our people are still very backward, steeped in casteism and communalism.
This is evident from what happens in our elections. Most people vote on the
basis of caste and religion, instead of on the merits of the candidate. What after
all are vote banks? Our people are still largely feudal and superstitious,
believing in astrology and similar nonsense.
In
this situation our intellectual and media have an important responsible,
patriotic duty of giving correct guidance to the people by propagating modern,
scientific ideas. But are they doing this? Much of what is shown in the media
are superficialities like lives of film stars and cricketers. Instead of
attacking communalism, a section of the media had become kar sewaks during the
Ram Janambhumi agitation. Whenever a bomb blast occurs with a short time many
T.V. channels start saying that an email or SMS has come that some Muslim
organization has claimed responsibility, thus demonizing the entire Muslim community. Is this responsible
behaviour? An email or SMS can be sent by any mischievous person. The truth is
that 99% people of all communities, Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Christian etc are
good, but often an attempt is made to depict all Muslims as terrorists.
Intellectuals
and media people must fight against divisive tendencies in our country. We must
remain united because modern industry requires a large market, and if we are
divided and fight with each other modern industry cannot grow, and without
modern industry we cannot generate the wealth required to abolish poverty,
unemployment, etc and provide for healthcare, education, etc for our people.
Therefore whatever divides us, whether on the basis of religion, caste, region,
language, race, etc is anti-national, and whatever unites us (e.g. secularism)
is the path we must adopt for progress.
We must not be Hindu nationalists or
Muslim nationalists or Sikh or Christian nationalists, we must all be Indian
nationalists, and that is what everyone including the media should propagate.
India went backward because of politics and democracy. You are wrong, there is no transition going from feudal agricultural to modern society. Poor is getting more poorer and rich more richer. Only progress India made is making mobile phones reachable to every corner of the country. 60 crore people dont have access to toilet, 40 crore are below poverty line. Inflation is touching sky high and affording food is also beyond limit for some people. Is this transformation you talking?
ReplyDeleteNow would you like to know which country made progress really and currently is role model for development. It is Singapore. Singapore is a role model country for entire world.
ReplyDelete1) Singapore when achieved freedom from British in 1959, it had racial killings and corruption. It had brief alliance with Malaysia but after parting with Malaysia in 1963, it was one of the poorest country with slums all over and corruption more than Pakistan.
2) One man with a mission name Lee Kuan yew took took the control. Removed democracy and first thing he did is focus on economic growth. He saw corruption as major hurdle. He passed one anti corruption bill and sent all corrupt minister in jail. To attract world investment Lee wanted to prove to world investors that they don't have to bribe everyone in getting work. Also with strong judicial process, business would be safe in legal proceeding.
3) Singapore has no natural resources so its people are its only resources. To attract best talent and increase export service it passed some of the most strictest law in Singapore to win the trust of people and global MNC companies that it is safe. No strikes were allowed to disrupt economic progress.
4) It kept its economy open to people and investors and passed business friendly policies. Lee then mentioned because of authoritative style of governance it did not had problem passing or pushing economic reforms benefited for Singapore.
5) Read an article on strait, how Singapore creates its own economic miracles. Despite being challenged by land constraint and no resources like dam it came stronger and built something unique.
Today Singapore from one of the poorest country and most corrupt has transformed to one of the most advanced, unique and progressive nation. Its per capita income has increased from 500 usd to 50,000 USD and has least corruption and cleanest city in world. Third richest country with no or least racism. For 100 average people there are 121 white collar jobs in Singapore.
Now the most unique thing about Singapore is innovation. When you eat in any hotel, they place photo of 1960's Singapore which was poor and today's Singapore which is advanced and unique. It also has man made heaven tourism with no historical places or nature. The Singapore law is very strict, some human right groups called it as draconian law since there is no mercy for anyone under it and it has highest execution in world. Once a dutch national was caught in drug trafficking and there is automatic death penalty for drug trafficker in Singapore. Dutch Government and even Queen of Dutch requested Singapore Govt to pardon him, the next year Singapore executed him and send his body in coffin to Dutch and gave them message if you will bring drugs this is what we will do.
The reason is Singapore leaders realized that democracy is good for developed nations but for poor and corrupt nations, it is hijacked by politicians and leaders for their own benefits.
Believe me Singapore model of development is the only model that can stop India from going towards destruction. For India to grow our corrupt politicians and democracy must go. You have to accept reality and cannot run from it that, democracy won't work here.
what good has been done to pakistan by dictatorship?
DeleteDemocracy or Dictatorship, there will no success without good intent.
DeleteYou half brain item. Why you take example of Pakistan. Pakistan neither has dictatorship nor democracy. It is most confused state with lackluster leaders.
DeleteRead properly what I mentioned. I said dictatorship will work only if there is good governance say like China, Hong Kong and even Arab. Democracy works for usa or europe where people understand whom to vote. Here voters are bribed for 1 packet biryani and 500 RS. How will 90% idiot in india knows whom to vote. It works for west since all of them are educated and cannot be bribed. Here voters are bought like cattles and sheep.
Singapore is definitely a success story. Such success is possible with small population (2 million in 1959) and difficult with large population like India. One may quote China's progress on even larger population. Can we even imagine living in such dictatorial country? Considering the mindset of our leaders, not necessarily politicians. Despite all that bad about politics, there is some positive change in over last decade. Many non-congress ruled states are performing better. Even some congress ruled states are faring well. This was because state leadership having better vision and even had reasonable free-hand in policy making. India as we see today was never a single political and cultural entity. Only after independence all are brought together. Various regions and states were sort of forced to follow rules framed by center from day one. Maybe it was necessary to maintain unity of nation. But after Nehru era, there should had been a better federal structure with freedom to regions/states to frame certain local policies. This could have given a chance to regional leaders focus more on development. But most of them ended up as satraps of congress party and continued same approach. Today most policies are IMPOSED on different sections.
DeleteIn most recent times Human rights and individual rights have become more problematic to governance. They are even hurting common relationships. Togetherness and identity are equally important for any society to achieve upward movement.
I really doubt Katju hypothesis,from where did India's so called immigrants come,did they have the technology or know how to carry out such a long migration.The entire land mass was one,Indian subcontinet,America all land masses were connected ,when the land masses separated,people also separated,depending on the climatic conditions few people became fair,dark,brown etc.Depending on whether they ate rice or wheat people were short,shout,slim or tall.
ReplyDeleteCommon people in India are not so bothered about their religious identity,they only want food,clothing and shelter.So our major problem is not religious nationalism but people who keep reminding people that it is the problem.
Katuju hypotheis? Who are you lonely heart? Do you have idea what Katju is talking than humming rubbish in the air? Common people are not bothered about religion? Why then marathi people vote for shiv sena where marathi manoos is slogan? Why then dalits votes for mayawati and backward class and ambedkar vote for sharad pawar? Why RSS chaddi gang members vote for BJP. Why BJP ideology is hindutva and not progress? Why jayalilata used Idli and lungi in the campaign and attract tamils? Why Modi used hindu nationalist term. Why MIM used minority votes? Why BJP rakes up Ram Mandir issue when in trouble?
DeleteDuring communal Bal Thackeray funeral 5 million people gathered in mumbai, during Raj Kumar death in bangalore 4 million people gathered but for Anna Hazare who was fighting for corruption and basic rights there were no people in his jalsa.
Katju is right India is a land of immigrants. Before Independance India was group of 456 princely states one of them was jammu and kashmir, then it became united india which comprised of pakistan and bangladesh before they parted
Over simplification of matters. If common people are voting on religious basis, only BJP should be winning in last 20 years. The fact that BJP could not cross 20% vote indicates that people do not vote on religious basis. Most of that 20% vote is also not for Hindu card but sheer frustration with congress.
DeleteFor rest of your questions
The problem with Indian democracy can be understood if compared to how Europe adopted democracy. The electoral democracy in Europe did not happen over-night. Rather it was transition. Voting rights were granted to various sections in stages. In fact women got voting rights nearly 300 years after democracy started in Europe. These days this will be interpreted as discrimination. But someone who can study carefully will understand the reasons.
Unfortunately in India voting rights given each and everyone in first elections itself. None including the educated were not educated properly about purpose of democracy. It gave ample scope for exploiters to misuse the democracy.
On the other hand this country, in fact the borrowed constitution and confused socialism, has failed to assure the common Indian about his/her survival in righteous way. Most of them are dependent on power granted to politicians.
Dear Katju Sir,
ReplyDeleteYou have indeed told all of us the bitter truth. Every citizen of this country should come forward and do their responsibility of imparting rational and scientific ideas. In this way we can contribute in our own small way. So everyone should vow to this duty.
Regards
Anuj Bahal
Student- Delhi university(L.L.M)
Secular means seclusion of the past from the present to create a new distorted society. It means seclusion of the genocide of hindus, buddhist, sikhs and jains by Abrahamic religious ideology that enslaved the world. 80% of the world was not christian or islamic, but was converted through brutal force to accept one communal belief of the middle east, one communal belief of European history, ideology, opinion, bias, culture, language, and opinion.
ReplyDeleteSecular means hiding the FACT that the Catholic church owns the largest amounnt of land in India, taken during occupation of india, legalized through the post colonial legal system of india and the western education judges like Katju.
Secular means distorting the past to allow those corrupt regimea to continue to exist in the form and presented in the form of a DEMOCRACY.
Today in India we have Secularism defined by the culture of the christian church, we have marxism that states India has no history, and we have abrahamic communalism against Dharmic communalism. In every islamic state there is no such thing as democracy or secularism, so an estimated 700million Muslim live in states that run to religious law.
Katju represents the colonial mentality enshrined in the Macauley Education system of India.
Secularism means SECLUSION of the past from the present, hiding the links of the corrupt elite to genocide and plunder of the past.
______________________________________________
''The spirit of English literature, on the other hand, cannot but be favorable to the English connection. Familiarly acquainted with us by means of our literature, the Indian youth almost cease to regard us as foreigners, we need to teach false history.'' Thomas Macauley, Christian creator of HINDU SECULAR EDUCATION.
Romanus Pontifex, issued by Pope Nicholas in 1452, declared war against all non-Christians throughout the world, and specifically sanctioned and promoted the conquest, colonization, and exploitation of non-Christian nations and their territories."
''We are to teach false history, because we find in them a false religion'' -Thomas Macauley, Christian right winger who created the Hindu secular education
The World Economy: A Millennial Perspective) A Study of Groninen University, reveals that India’s share of the world income went from 24.4% in 1700, to a low of 3.8% in 1952, at the end of the British Christian Empire.
IBN-CNN A debate in whether church properties in India should be governed by the government. Some leading figures from the community demanded a law at the recently held All India Catholic Union Conclave.The Catholic Church in India owns the largest chunk of non-agriculturalland. The Priest refused to allow any talk of the land being given back to the state.
''England has a double role to carry out In India, one destroying Indian soceity, two replacing it with western materialism'' KARL Marx, ideology founder of CPI (M) familylinks to NDTV.
Sickularism well defined...
DeleteMacauley Katju has still not responded to the TIMES OF INDIA article in which they planted the story of 15,000 people.
ReplyDeleteSecularism in its purest form, is seclusion of the truth. Hence the reason why Katju did not make any statement to the media about the distortion and bias in their article.
Secular means SECLUSION.
You mean Secularism means Modi who says I am Hindu Nationalist first and never give party tickets to minorities? I think you consider RSS as real secularist who says India can only move forward adopting Hindutva. Where will other minorities go then. Also secularism means logo of RSS which paints all Indian map as saffron.
DeleteI am a Muslims but I adore and respect a country like Singapore. Look at them now. They really transformed it to a progressive nation even though there were 75% chinese and budhist in majority. That is secular where there is religous freedom not like RSS
Dear Sameer,
DeleteI agree with many of views but regarding Modi I would like to say that Modi always refers Gujaratis never ever prefers hindu or muslims, dalit or upper cast. (he is from a lower cast) He always says and works for Gujaratis. Though media and people always ask him to answer what he has done for muslims. Is he secular only if he works for minorities? He answered a question that yes I am born Hindu and I am a nationalist so you can say that I am a Hindu Nationalist. What wrong he said ? In his governance I didnt find any discrimination towards any cast or community.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThe reason why Muslims dont like modi saying he is a nationalist because it implies he is not a muslim sympathizer.
DeleteIslamic leaders and religious leaders, openly telll Muslim to vote in blocks, or COMMUNAL voting against one particulat person, who ever that person may be, Islam controls its followers to such a degree that they make sure they dont vote for a non believer. They will manipulate muslims to vote for a SECULAR HINDU or a secluded hindu, because he is more likely to give bias to islamic law and ideology within secular India. So the reason why Indian Muslim dont want modi is because he wont allow those muslims who want to undermine Indian soceity to convert, or politicital conversion, or to allow a parallel islamic soceity to exist in India.
Why dont Indian Muslims have respect for their own ancestors, just like Iranian muslim who accept they where once Zoroastrians, but instead islamic leaders tell Indian muslims they HAVE NO HINDU HISTORY, and that they are from ARABIA!..LOL, Why is this manipulation being carried out?......Why is it wrong to say Indian muslim have Hindu ancesttry, why is there such an attempt from the Islamic leader to deny this?..... A historical fact!
Its because Muslims dont accept this, is the reason why they vote in communal blocks, they do not allow their women to marry non muslims, they bow to arabia communally, they reject all non arab practices communally, they reject all non believing religions and history communally, and they are told that they will be killed if they leave arab islam, commuanlly. If there was a debate on tv, the expansionist Muslims, the leftiest, the colonially educated secluded Hindus would be shown up for they are, right wing people distorting and erasing the past, history to create a new distorted soceity.
Before saying rubbish and writing long message read all my message. Also have some respect for Katju who was supreme court judge for a long time.
DeleteI would give you the reason why minorities and Muslims will never vote for Modi and why he hate Narendra Modi. First of all he is big liar. He shows of Gujrat as if it has become USA or Europe. We agree he did some development but to show off that Gujrat is the richest and best place in world is fooling innocent Indians because you are showing them false dreams.
You talking big. Tell me did even in Indian history an RSS man had been sentenced by court? Also Akbaruddin Owaisi is sent to remand and Pravin Togadia is set free. Indian judiciary has done lot of injustice to Muslims. Because of injustice the system breeded terrorist. Look at Maoist now. Look at Kashmir Muslims? We do sympathize with all form of terrorism like Pakistan send their terrorist across border. It is true. But I adore singapore than any country. Singapore is role model where there is no place of violence and injustice.
For one instance we do agree modi is not communal. He had backing of RSS, VHP, Bajrangi dals. Do they have any vision? Do they posses inclusiveness and tolerance for other religion? More than hindu and muslims first you look at intolerance between own religion like case based discrimination like OBC, backward and upward class. Look at India where it is going.
Like i said Muslim vote communally. END OF.
DeleteYou can ignore the stats on islamic terrorism around the world, you can ignore the ghodra train burning which led to the riots, you can ignore that more muslims are butchered to death by other muslims, you can ignore that modi has never been found guilty, even though many many right wingers posing as liberals distort and manipulative evidence.
You do all of that because your Islamic. Your not allowed to have a position of inferiority with a hindu. Your a mawali a slave client of an arab. Its the reason why you deny historical facts such as your ancestors where hindu, that boils your blood, because you reject truth and then come about with BS about rights etc. You deny the islamic genocide of hindus, yet in europe its an offense to deny the holocaust of jews. You can deny that the christian church owns the largest amount of land in india, then blame brahmins and rss, you can deny that the largest transfer of wealth in human history was from india to europe, you can deny that you dont have hindu-buddhist-jain dharmic roots, but that dont make you arab!
Secular means seclusion of the past from the present to create a secluded new society. It is ISLAMIC people or those who have an agenda of conversion who dont want modi. Those muslims see it as their HUMAN RIGHT to undermine Hindu soceity. For every islamic state is run to religious law, if muslims adhere to some sort of ummah, then its very obvious why you communally vote block. The islamic leaders OWN their followers and their VOTE BANK!
This is what modi is against, TRUE DEMOCRACY!!!
When you apologize for the incite to riot when a muslim mob burned alive a train full of hindus, and tell me why that happened, then maybe we can talk on a level par!!!!
I agree Muslims are most backward community in the world. I remember one scholar said Islam is one of the best religion but its followers are worst. At least I am agreeing. I even agree some islamic scholars have twisted islamic principles and follow it wrong way say Afghanistan and Pakistan people the most backward and disgrace community in world. But how does it make Modi and RSS secular. They too are in the same line. Forget Modi as secular and non secular. Below are the reason I don't find modi as trustworthy and honest leader as PM of this country. He don't deserve.
Delete1) Modi only attacks Congress. On daily basis he only attacks Congress for issues like corruption, lack of governance and vote bank politics. Modi forgotten that Shiv Sena is holding Bombay muncipal corporation the richest corporation. Look at Mumbai condition in rainy season. It should be gutterland instead of mumbai. Sewage water flowing with rats ccming out. It is because of lack of governance. Corruption is done by all parties but he targets only congress.
2) Vote bank politics is done by all parties like right wind parties like RSS, Shiv Sena for hardline hindus, mayawati for dalits, mulayam for muslims, jayalalita for tamils, but again he never say a word against these regional parties. This says his intentions is not clear and only wants to capture power. He knows he wont get muslims support so he wants third front support
3) Modi intention of secularism is also not clear. Modi keeps on meeting people like RSS/VHP/ sadhvi kadambari and all who broke babri masjid but feel angry when yasin malik meets hefeez saeed. If he is so much popular why dont he make another party and keep himself distance from hindu hardliners.
4) He is just a puppet of RSS/VHP and ker sevaks he don't have guts to stand own
5) He never speaks about corruption and bring in Lokpal since he himself in involved in mass corruption and passing deals with MNC in Gujrat
Bun Driver the current condition in India is so bad that I would be better of as Arab slave. You know how rich and disciplines Arab are? Do you see their laws? I better leave this country since people are not only communal here, but backward, idiots, divisive, slaves and fools
DeleteSameer Ji,
Delete"I would give you the reason why minorities and Muslims will never vote for Modi and why he hate Narendra Modi. First of all he is big liar. He shows of Gujrat as if it has become USA or Europe."
According to me above is strange reason or I am not able to understand it. Can you explain it?
"Indian judiciary has done lot of injustice to Muslims. Because of injustice the system breeded terrorist. Look at Maoist now."
- In spite of India being secular country only minority community is provided with separate laws - You respect Katju a former member of the same system coz his views favors you. Sounds strange.
Maoist are not created because of ill treatment of Indian Judiciary they are because of improper governance and/or because of poverty and social unbalance.
"You talking big. Tell me did even in Indian history an RSS man had been sentenced by court? Also Akbaruddin Owaisi is sent to remand and Pravin Togadia is set free."
Praveen togadia is not a RSS Man he is from VHP. He is also roaming free as Shahi Imam of Jama Masjid (after making so many anti national and communal statements)
Secondly Not all minorities are against Modi, Minorities i.e. Sikh, Parsi, Buddhist, Jains and to some extent Christian.
Third - Praveen Togadia is not a RSS man.
Arabs are the most uneducated people in the world. Child marriage legalized in the Arab Islamic courts, women not allowed full work, full rights, full voting rights, cannot drive alone. Where the state government gives a annual salary to the citizens of dubai, for not even having to work, while they fund extreme Wahhabi Islam, fund Arab spring which has killed over 100,000 MUSLIMS, they kill people who reject or deny Arab Mohammed, they allow no rights for non believers, a medieval sharia law, where punishment is cutting hands, stoning people,where a non arab is not allowed to buy land in Arabia, where a women can get raped and then sent to prison for pre-marital sex! and YOU AS MUSLIM THINK YOU CAME FROM ARABIA?....or India? Why dont you accept that 5000years history of you is not Islamic but Hindu-Buddhist? Why do you deny a HISTORICAL FACT?......and yet you claim to be democratic?...While in Islamic countries Muslims HATE democracy and say its against islamic sharia law?
DeleteSo which one is it?
Do you deny Modi because your own ARAB ISLAMIC LEADERS own your mind and voice? Its your right to convert others?....Why do you deny your non islamic past, unless you think your came from Muhammeds tribe in the middle east? Which i dont think you did? did you? lol.
Islam where arab expansion has been sold as FAITH ITSELF. FOrcing others to erase their roots and history to honor arab roots and history
@Sameer Shaikh
DeleteKill any Muslim who leaves islam
-Bukhari
Turkish cleric, Ziauddin Barani, Imposed Islamic law in India. He regarded Ashraf Muslims (Turk/Arab Muslims Noahs Shem lineage) as racially superior to the Ajlafs (Indian Muslim converts)All high positions and privileges were monopoly of the high born Turks and Arabs (Ashraf) not the Indian Muslims (Ajlafs).
"Slavery is a part of Islam...(those who argue that slavery is abolished are) ignorant, not scholars. They are merely writers. Whoever says such things is an infidel."
Saudi Sheikh Saleh Al-Fawzan, member of the Senior Council of Clerics, 2003
And Allah hath favoured some of you above others in provision in wealth and property. Now those who are more favoured will by no means hand over their provision to those (slaves) whom their right hands possess, so that they may be equal with them in respect thereof.
koran 16:71
Mawali (Arabic:موال) is a term in Classical Arabic used to address non-Arab Muslims. It means client or slave worker of an Arab. The term gained prominence in the centuries following the early Arab Muslim conquests in the 7th century, as many non-Arabs such as Persians, Sikhs, Hindu, Buddhist, where converted to Islam. Converts were treated as second class citizens by ruling Arab elite - they continued to pay the tax required of nonbelievers and excluded from government.
when A'isha (Muhammad's wife) had a maid-slave who was an Arab, Muhammad said to A'isha, `Set this maid free because she is from the children of Ishmael.'
Ibn Timiyya, Vol. 31,
___________
UNTIL Indian muslims realise they did not come from Arabia, their ancestors had no connection with dessert arabs, 4000miles away, then maybe they can start to understand the meaning of truth. Until then they will defend something that they where NEVER PART OF.
Who made Bhukhari the caretaker and representative of Islam? Just because he has few supporters doesn't make him the spokesperson of entire community. There are good, bad and ugly muslims. Quran is not interpreted properly by many extremist. Like in Islam, it is said that it is good if you keep beard, but some extremist say that if you dont keep beard you are not muslims. Similarly it is also written in Islam you cannot kill any human. Killing one human is biggest sin and even in war you cannot kill women and children. Dont copy paste versus from here and there. Show versus of Quran in arabic and then translate if you can dare if you know arabic.
DeleteSimilarly in every religion there are extremist, fascist, fundamentalist. Wars have been fight in hinduism. Study the history of Europe more than 6 crore people died in world war 1 and 2. Hallaucast genocide where 4 million jewish were killed by nazi germany. Is it fair to target one community?
Again you are wrong. Btw you know that Muslim leaders in middle east and eastern europe worked with Nazi ss leaders to form their own Islamic SS Division to capture and kill Jews. If you want further clarification, google Image, Islam and Nazism, and see Grand Mufti Amin Al Husseini and Hitler working side by side. (YET MAWALI Indians have the NERVE to call Modi hitler, when Islam has a direct connection to the masscare of Jews, as we all know. Islam LOVES the jew.
DeleteQur'an:4:95 "Not equal are believers who sit home and receive no hurt and those who fight in Allah's Cause with their wealth and lives. Allah has granted a grade higher to those who fight with their possessions and bodies to those who sit home. Those who fight He has distinguished with a special reward."
ISLAM 100% is Arab expansion in which people are CONverted to honor arab rule masked as god.
Bukhari is one the most authentic authorities on islam, some put him on par with the Koran, is how much importance BUKHARI has in Arab Islam.
And Allah hath favoured some of you above others in provision in wealth and property. Now those who are more favoured will by no means hand over their provision to those (slaves) whom their right hands possess, so that they may be equal with them in respect thereof.
koran 16:71
وَاللَّهُ فَضَّلَ بَعْضَكُمْ عَلَىٰ بَعْضٍ فِي الرِّزْقِ فَمَا الَّذِينَ فُضِّلُوا بِرَادِّي رِزْقِهِمْ عَلَىٰ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُهُمْ فَهُمْ فِيهِ سَوَاءٌ أَفَبِنِعْمَةِ اللَّهِ يَجْحَدُونَ
Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it.
On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone slew a person - unless it be in retaliation for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew all mankind: and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all humanity.
Qur'an 5:32
The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter; Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
Qur'an 5:33-34
And that verse killing one human is like killing mankind, is actually IF ONE KILLS A PERSON OF ISREALITES it will be like he killed all people. What is mischief defined as? GOING AGAINST ARAB ISLAM.
Another belief of Abrahamic religion is that war, genocide, famine are gods works.
ReplyDeleteMarxist ideology accepts war, genocide, famine, extermination as just.
So the history of Europe in war and violence, is a DIRECT RESULT OF THEIR RELIGIOUS IDEOLOGY. Hence even today in the 21st century, the west has created more wars, killed more people than the ALL WARS PREVIOUSLY.
So Macaulay Katjus basis that European 16th century violence was because of a transition between bad to good is absurd. Because in the 20th century alone, the west has killed more people, financed more wars than the entire history of mankind itself.
Akbar addressed himself as 'ghazi' (killer of Hindu)
ReplyDeleteTHIS IS WHY KATJU promotes secularism, it means seclusion of the past from the present. How else would they continue to earn money, unless they distort the past which they use to create a false position.
Mughal emperor Akbar 'ordered the massacre of about 30,000 (captured) Rajput Hindus on February 24, 1568 AD, after the battle for Chitod'. Another reference indicates that this massacre of 30,000 Hindu peasants at Chitod is recorded by Abul Fazl, Akbar's court historian himself . These two 'one day' massacres are sufficient to provide a reference point for estimating the scale of Hindu genocide.
Afghan historian Khondamir notes that during one of the many repeated invasions on the city of Herat in western Afghanistan, which used to be part of the Hindu Shahiya kingdoms “1,500,000 residents perished”. “Thus, writes Vyas, it is evident that the mountain range was named as Hindu Kush as a reminder to the future Hindu generations of the slaughter and slavery of Hindus during the Moslem conquests”
Biography by Vincent Smith, Akbar enjoyed 'a harem consisting of 5000 women, mostly Hindus
___________________
Secular MEANS seclusion! How dare this Macauley judge say AKBAR is the founder of India. Only through a distorted christian abrahamic education would one make such an uneducated opinion.
Katju did not write to praise Akbar. He just wrote history. He wanted to see how intolerant India has become where people cannot digest praise of other religion emperor. Tomorrow you will say Taj Mahal was not built by shah Jahan but by Tansen. Learn to respect other religion and become more tolerant. Justice Katju is right when he says 90% of Indians are communals
DeleteWhy do you think the government has banned ANY WORK ON THE TAJ MAHAL?....One of the most beautiful buildings in the world, on which is off limits by the government?
DeleteTaj Mahal is 100% not Islamic.
____
The study by R Balasubramaniam of the Indian Institute of Technology, Kanpur, has for the first time shown that the unit of length called "angulam" -- mentioned in Kautilya's treatise "Arthasastra" dated 300 BC -- was used without a break by Indian builders for over 3,900 years until the British imposed their units in the 18th century.
The ancient "angulam" has been found to be equal to 1.763 modern centimetres, according to Balasubramaniam, he says he was surprised that "angulam" and its multiples "vitasti" (12 angulams) and "dhanus" (108 angulams) have been used as the unit of measurement right from the Harappan times till the pre-modern era when the Taj was built.
Balasubramaniam, who last year studied the dimensions of the 1,600-year-old Delhi Iron Pillar at the Qutub Minar complex, found that "angulam" and its multiple "dhanus" were used as the basic units of length in its design.
And now in a paper published in Current Science, Balasubramaniam has shown that the modular plan of the Taj Mahal complex is based on use of grids of sides measuring 60 and 90 "vitasti".
He says the study has established that the design and architecture of the Taj is based on traditional Indian units codified in "Arthasastra" and that "there is nothing foreign" in its design.
"The fact that the unit of angulam of 1.763 cm could match very well the dimensions of historical monuments establishes the continuity of India's engineering tradition through the ages for as long as 3,900 years,"
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The tejo Mahal was built by Hindus to specific vedic building codes, the ancestors knew one day their achivements would be hijacked by others, so they left their MARK on the VERY DESIGN of Tejo Mahal.
Just as invaded Muslims did in persia, egpty, turkey, they hijacked plces of worship converted them into mosques, or used Hindu temples as morgues.
________
Kill any Muslim who leaves islam
-Bukhari
Turkish cleric, Ziauddin Barani, Imposed Islamic law in India. He regarded Ashraf Muslims (Turk/Arab Muslims Noahs Shem lineage) as racially superior to the Ajlafs (Indian Muslim converts)All high positions and privileges were monopoly of the high born Turks and Arabs (Ashraf) not the Indian Muslims (Ajlafs).
"Slavery is a part of Islam...(those who argue that slavery is abolished are) ignorant, not scholars. They are merely writers. Whoever says such things is an infidel."
Saudi Sheikh Saleh Al-Fawzan, member of the Senior Council of Clerics, 2003
And Allah hath favoured some of you above others in provision in wealth and property. Now those who are more favoured will by no means hand over their provision to those (slaves) whom their right hands possess, so that they may be equal with them in respect thereof.
koran 16:71
Mawali (Arabic:موال) is a term in Classical Arabic used to address non-Arab Muslims. It means client or slave worker of an Arab. The term gained prominence in the centuries following the early Arab Muslim conquests in the 7th century, as many non-Arabs such as Persians, Sikhs, Hindu, Buddhist, where converted to Islam. Converts were treated as second class citizens by ruling Arab elite - they continued to pay the tax required of nonbelievers and excluded from government.
when A'isha (Muhammad's wife) had a maid-slave who was an Arab, Muhammad said to A'isha, `Set this maid free because she is from the children of Ishmael.'
Ibn Timiyya, Vol. 31,
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UNTIL Indian muslims realise they did not come from Arabia, their ancestors had no connection with dessert arabs, 4000miles away, then maybe they can start to understand the meaning of truth. Until then they will defend something that they where NEVER PART OF.
If you dont believe the history of Taj Mahal why would we believe Balasubramaniam? Who is this guy t trust for? What difference it will make if it is built by hindu or muslim? Cant you appreciate it. This proves justice katju theory that 90% indians are communal.
DeleteThis again proves katju theory india is extremely backward and it can never progress like Singapore unless there are communal people like you
Why should you believe him other than him being a scholar of Indian Institute of Technology and his studies published in peer review magazines like Current Science?
DeleteThere are written records from Hindu kings that state the tejo mahal was built before arab turk muslims invaded.
I can Guarantee!!! that the reason why GOI has not allowed any real excavation work around the tejo mahal, and not allowed scholars in to the basements of the mahal is because they will 100% FIND Hindu dieties. But because you want secular, such truths will be hidden then erased!
Tejo Mahal? Mahal itself is an urdu word and used in urdu literature. If you visit Taj Mahal you see the structure there are things written in persian or urdu in walls in some places. You look like a paid RSS agent or kar sevak hiding with a disguise name.
DeleteYou idiot bundriver we educated Indian muslims don't care tejo or Taj Mahal. All we want today is India should be a place like Singapore where you feel proud seeing the country, and even Dubai which made stupendous progress or Europe. Look at current situation in India for AAM AADMI now
DeleteYou said that Taj Mahal was Muslim and that it was not hindu. I said the historical truth and scietific evidence proves it is not islamic and it was taken by arab turk invaders and their is proof that the tejo mahal was taken by foriegn invading muslims, hence the design of tejo mahal is 100% VEDIC IN ORIGIN! Remember Hindu civilisation is 5000years older than muhammed, a history that the arabs tell you to erase, forget, dilute, while you bow down and honor arab rule, name, culture, history, origns. THIS WE DONT CALL DEMOCRACY, but an arab elite sellign conquer and conversion as FAITH ITSELF.
DeleteDubai is WHOLLY MADE ON OIL money, from western technology, a country that is RUN TO MEDIEVAL laws, where women are not allowed to walk outside, have to cover up, not allowed full voting rights, education, where denying allah is a criminal offense, 100% ISLAMIC RELIGIOUS LAW.
So why do you want secularism in India?....So you can convert and push islam as per ISLAMIC ideology.
MUSLIMS are BOUND to push Arab islam, and convert others, as a mission of ALLAH!.....This is the reason why they cry about Gujarat Riots, but dont UTTER A SINGLE word about how a muslim mob incited a riot by burning ALIVE women and children WAITING IN A TRAIN, TRAPPED, SEALED SHUT, and then the same muslim mob stone and attack the police and ambulance, this is your definiation of DEMOCRACY, a polemic view, where you dont accept that the riots started because of islamic terrorism.!
You dont care or cry about how 100,00 MUSLIM BUTCHERED to death by Other muslim in islamic states RUN TO RSS ISLAMIC SHARIA LAW. Its very clear to see why you dont want Modi, because your religious LEADER USE THEIR COMMUNAL FOLLOWERS TO COMMUNAL VOTE BLOCK ANY LEADER WHO IS NOT AN ISLAMIC SYMPATHIZER!
Your a MAWALI an arab client, where FAITH has been sold as Arab worship, where you dont accept proven history, but try to create a diluted version of history, where your nothing but an arab worker, a convert, who has been told to push islam, as a matter of faith.
Which is the reason why you dont get any protests from Muslims when another muslim have been killed like in pakistan, girls wanting education or muslims fighting each other for alla! lol, like in syria, egypt, iraq, iran, libya, nigeria, bangladesh, sudan.
Remember since 2002, over 18,000 ISLAMIC attacks around the world. Because muslims are owned by arab islamic leaders, they LITERALLY OWN THEIR MOUTHS.
The ONLY reason you dont want modi is because he is not an arab islamic sympathizer. You see it as yoru human right to convert other, pushing through arab rule sold as religion.
Taj Mahal is a corrupted version of the earlier name
DeleteTEJO MAHAL. Temple of Shiva.
Im glad that you couldnt excuse the scientific evidence that proves Taj Mahal is a vedic contruction not an arab turk one. And it proves that just like Arab turks, invaded and hijacked Buddhist temples, persian temples, christian churches, they dont the same with tejo mahal.
But dont worry, because your WANT SECULARISM, you will hide and dilute the truth because it reveals the true history of abrahamic islam, which enslaved and conquered large parts of the world.
''KILL ANY MUSLIM, if they leave Islam''
Bukhari quoting Muhammed.
What is FAITH, when your forbidden to leave? Slavery, nothing but a series of orders to carry out, but you protect that as religion ...lol
Dubai is backward and women cannot walk alone in Dubai? This shows your knowledge and your AUKAAT which category you belong to. There is no point in discussion with you. You first come out of RSS chaddi gang ideology.I studied in 2 first world countries Canada and New Zealand. I found Singapore as most vibrant, developed and prosperous nation.
DeleteSecond Dubai is melting pot of world culture. Dubai is modern version of Mumbai where not only Hindu but people and religion from all over the world go to work including people from western country. There is strict law for everyone. 70% of the professionals and workers in Dubai are expatriates means people from other countries.
Last you want to know why Katuju praised Akbar and talking about Secularism. He belongs to Kashmiri Pandit family raised in Lucknow. You know Lucknow? Indian people as whole is communal, but only place where still old age tradition and custom is alive and a place which is a melting pot of Indian culture is Lucknow. See how Hindu and Muslims live there. There was never riot in that part. Thanks that RSS Chaddi gang centre is not there. There is no point in discussing and replying to low grade and backward person like you.
Does Dubai have Islamic Sharia law or not?
DeleteLets test the depth of your deceit and ignorance.
The truth is YOU know that ISLAM 100% does not allow converts to leave in peace and 100% demands its followers to push arab law masked a religion.
Why do you want secular in India, if your ok with sharia in dubai?
Only Dharma protects all, islamic sharia law 100% discriminates against non muslims, so why you want secular when dubai is sharia?
Makes NO SENSE at all.
Does Islam accept hinduism?
Akbar was born on 14 October 1542 (the fourth day of Rajab, 949 AH), at the Rajput Fortress of Umerkot in Sindh (in modern day Pakistan), where Emperor Humayun and his recently wedded wife, Hamida Banu Begum, daughter of Shaikh Ali Akbar Jami, a Persian,[8] were taking refuge. After the capture of Kabul by Humayun, Badruddin's circumcision ceremony was held and his date of birth and name were changed to throw off evil sorcerers[9] and he was renamed Jalal-ud-din Muhammad by Humayun, a name which he had heard in his dream at Lahore.
You mean the 300,000 Kashmiris brutalised and forced out of their homeland of 6000years, by converted hindu into Arab islam, then forbidden to leave?
That is correct Islam 100% does not allow a convert to leave. Just like how Arab islamic propganda and islamic missionaries have converted europeans and european girls to carry out jihad and bombings?
You dont admit that the reason you dont want MODI is because he will BRING DHARMIC RULE, in which muslim can live and exist, but not undermine dharmic law and civilisation, which ARAB ISLAM has done in EVERY SINGLE LAND ON EARTH!
We use logic, you use secularism, to seclude the past from the present.
Does islam accept any other religion? You wont answer you will secularize the truth.
Katju is the spokesperson for Hitler. No not Modi, but the Christian leader who was following 1000years of christian genocide of hindus, sikhs, buddhist, native americans, south americas, africans, australians etc.
ReplyDeleteHow can any decent man claim that the islamic invasion of india, and that akbar was the founder of india. What a disgrace!......This man should be sent on the first plane to ANY ISLAMIC COUNTRY, then we will see his salary fall quicker than a islamic bomb on a mosque full of shias carried out by sunnis.
You mean all ISLAMIC COUNTRY is facing problem where sunni is killing Shia's and you are talking as if India is organized and fair to everyone like Singapore.
DeleteFirst Look at conditions in India before commenting on other countries. Here more than shia killing, there is dowry deaths happening on daily basis, there was sati killing before, honor killings, rape, castism deeply rooted in society, untouchable group, socially boycotted groups, backward class, female foeticide, genocide and riots like Gujrat 2002, Maoist killing. Also FEKU modi says Gujrat is shinning and his state has highest malnutrition deaths, poverty in rural areas.
Forget bomb blast here 2000 people get killed every year in mumbai local train as conditions and sanity in mumbai local train is so bad people travel worst than animals.
Remember 80% people in India is very bad conditions. Rest live decent lives. Less than 1% tiny elites live good life.
If you know real history not the secular secluded version of history then you would know that the biggest transfer of wealth in human history was from India to Europe. SO blame the poverty on the occupation of the english speakers, who still continue today, even though they may look Indian in color.
DeleteWhy dont Muslims protest against Islamic terror in islamic states?..Why dont they protest against the terrorism against kashmir pundits, or north east hindus, or aghan girls being attacked for wanting education, or the saudi regime who dont give full rights to women, or attack islamic countries that dont have equal rights for all, but instead has sharia law, where no believers are given a second degree rights?
Because ARAB ISLAM, forbids a muslim to leave islam without being killed, so in effect muslim have no faith other than carrying out arab orders sold as religionl
''Kill any muslim who leave islam''
Bukhari
''Fighting is prescribed for you even if you dont like it''
Koran.
The reason why Muslims bow to mecca is because they are bowing to arab rule, in which converts have to adopt an arab name, culture, lang, idenity, history, origins, law in effect duplicates.
Why dont Muslim protest about other terrorist muslims? Because they are not allowed to by their faith, the islamic arab faith DOES NOT EVEN ALLOW A MUSLIM TO LEAVE IN PEACE, if they chose.
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The World Economy: A Millennial Perspective) A Study of Groninen University, reveals that India’s share of the world income went from 24.4% in 1700, to a low of 3.8% in 1952, at the end of the British Christian Empire.
IBN-CNN A debate in whether church properties in India should be governed by the government. Some leading figures from the community demanded a law at the recently held All India Catholic Union Conclave.The Catholic Church in India owns the largest chunk of non-agriculturalland. The Priest refused to allow any talk of the land being given back to the state.
''England has a double role to carry out In India, one destroying Indian soceity, two replacing it with western materialism'' KARL Marx, ideology founder of CPI (M) family links to NDTV.
Again KATJU says India is a land of immigrants, but surely his christian missionary education needs updating. HAVE YOU EVER seen any person comment on the genetic history of India, without ANY UNDERSTANDING OF GENETICS?.......Katju you are no geneticist, you are best a third rate english judge. This is why SECULAR is promoted by Colonialist Katju and others, even when presented with scientific FACT, that Indians come from tribal Indians and THERE WAS NO MIGRATIONS INTO INDIA, yet this immoral judge continues to spout his christian missionary dialogues as FACT!
ReplyDelete________
Metspalu, Gyaneshwer Chaubey et al, American Journal of Human Genetics, Dec. 2011)
Genetic study finds no evidence for Aryan Migration Theory--On the contrary, South Indians migrated to north and South Asians migrated into Eurasia
The study is comprehensive, unlike previous studies of human genome and is unique, because it focuses on large number of populations in South Asia, and India, a region which harbours one of the highest levels of genetic diversity in Eurasia and currently accounts for one sixth of human population in the world.
The study analysed human genetic variation on a sample of 1310 individuals that belong to 112 populations, using new genome-wide data contains more than 600,000 single nucleotide polymorphic sites among 142 samples from 30 ethnic groups of India. The most important scientific findings of the study are:
• South Asian genetic diversity is 2nd in the world, next only to Africa, mainly due to long periods of indigenous development of lineages and with complex population structure where one can see the different caste and tribal populations.
• Two genetic components among Indians are observed: one is restricted to India and explains 50% genetic ancestry of Indian populations , while, the second which spread to West Asia and Caucasus region. Technically called “haplotype diversity”, it is a measure of the origin of the genetic component. The component which spread beyond India has significantly higher haplotype diversity in India than in any other part of world. This is clear proof that this genetic component originated in India and then spread to West Asia and Caucasus. The distribution of two genetic components among Indians clearly indicates that the Aryan-Dravidian division is a myth, Indian population landscape is clearly governed by geography.
• A remarkable finding is that the origin of these components in India is much older than 3500 years which clearly refutes Aryan Invasion theory of the type enunciated by Max Mueller ! The study also found that haplotypic diversity of this ancestry component is much greater than in Europe and the Near East (Iraq, Iran, Middle East) thus pointing to an older age of the component and/or long-term higher effective population size (that is, indigenous evolution of people).
• Haplotype diversity associated with dark green ancestry is greatest in the south of the Indian subcontinent, indicating that the alleles underlying it most likely arose there and spread northwards.
• The study refutes Aryan migrations into India suggested by the German orientalist Max Muller that ca. 3,500 years ago a dramatic migration of Indo-European speakers from Central Asia shaping contemporary South Asian populations, introduction of the Indo-European language family and the caste system in India. A few past studies on mtDNA and Y-chromosome variation have interpreted their results in favor of the hypothesis, whereas others have found no genetic evidence to support it. The present study notes that any migration from Central Asia to South Asia should have introduced readily apparent signals of East Asian ancestry into India. The study finds that this ancestry component is absent from the region. The study, therefore, concludes that if such at all such a dispersal ever took place, it should have occurred 12,500 years ago. On the contrary, there is evidence for East Asian ancestry component reaching Central Asia at a later period
Just curious, what is dark green ancestry?
DeleteDont copy paste an article from internet and try to prove Katju wrong. Katju was supreme court judge. You know the meaning of Supreme court judge? What you achieved in life can you list here. From your post you look like a sadakchaap romeo who passed exam by cheating and copying from others. Thats why you copy and pasted irrelevant article to what Katju mentioned.
DeleteIndia was a land of migrants. Katuju is slightly wrong because now no one wants to migrate to third class India where only few tiny elites are enjoying the privilege and exploiting others.
I am sorry but India is really a third class country since there is no equality amongst people, also there is no law and order here. Law and order is only meant to show people by sentencing Sanjay Dutt but mass murderer Modi and Advani goes unpunished. Because unfair justice happens, it breeds terrorism. You make law like Singapore where strict punishment is given to everyone, then see how people commit crime.
DeleteI have read genetics for over ten years. Im surprised the Macualey Katju a ''educated person'' uses missionary propaganda to make a moral point!
I use science not a English third rate judge who thinks he knows about history and then uses his position to distort the truth. While in every islamic country there is no such as secular or democracy, it amazes me on what basis does this katju think he is basing morality on.
If this Educated Judge uses missionary ideology to talk about Indian history it UNDERMINES EVERY OPINION HE HAS.
except for Africans, all humans have ancestors in the North-West of the Indian peninsula. In particular, one migration started around 50,000 BP towards the Middle East and Western Europe: “indeed, nearly all Europeans — and by extension, many Americans — can trace their ancestors to only four mtDNA lines, which appeared between 10,000 and 50,000 years ago and originated from South Asia.”
-Lluís Quintana-Murci,Vincent Macaulay,Stephen Oppenheimer,Michael Petraglia,and their associates
M17 is not only more diverse in South Asia than in Central Asia, but diversity characterizes its presence in isolated tribal groups in the south, thus undermining any theory of M17 as a marker of a ‘male Aryan invasion’ of India. One average estimate for the origin of this line in India is as much as 51,000 years. All this suggests that M17 could have found his way initially from India or Pakistan, through Kashmir, then via Central Asia and Russia, before finally coming into Europe.”
-Stephen Oppenheimer
''All Indians have the same DNA structure. No foreign genes or DNA has entered the Indian mainstream in the last 60,000 years''
AMERICAN JOURNAL OF HUMAN GENETICS.
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The reason why Katju is the way he is, is simple:
''We need to TEACH FALSE HISTORY, because we find in them a false religion.''
Thomas Macauley, Christian creator of Hindu secular education.
So next time you talk about logic and truth, i suggest you ask why Katju doesnt use either.
Btw 18,000 islamic attacks since 2002, over 100,000 muslim dead in islamic states run to islamic law and education. I wonder why that was not blamed on Modi. Or how SECULUDED HINDUS, or secular as they want to be known never pay respect to those people burned on a train, inciting the riots, Which is an offense in the states, to incite a riot, where more than 6 people organise themselves to create anger and hurt aka train burning.
T
Justice Katju,
ReplyDeletePlease do comment or write on something new. Most of your blogs have been the same old stuff. Althought what you write is true and cannot agree more, reading the same stuff time and again is boring. Basically you are paraphrasing the same key points from the write up 'what is India' and whipping up a bunch of blogs to the relavent situation.
Again, I agree on what you say, but having said once or twice its ok....please don't beat the same drum to every song..
What Katju is writing first understand it. What do you mean by writing same stuff? Should he write about Sunny Leone, the pornstar popularity in bollywood since now bollywood has fascination for sleaze and vulgarity.
DeleteMaybe you need to read it 100 times more to understand it. And just because you're obsessed with Sunny Leone doesn't mean everyone else wants to talk/write about her.
DeleteSouth Indians migrated to north India, is what they mean be dark green ancestry.
DeleteShaikh Saab, looks like you wouldn't understand a bit of language. Read carefully what I wrote. If you cared more about what Justice Katju has written in his past 10-15 blogs, you'd come to the same conclusion as any sane person of minimal IQ would.
Deletethanks bmdriver for the clarification
Subbadu,
Deletedo not bother. Many fans of Katju bored and not even visiting the blog. Sameer could be new hired to punch rather click 'Like' :-)
Sir with much respect I want you to clarify that why astrology is a supersition or similar to that and if you cannot kindly apolozise
ReplyDeleteHe wont apologize because he is a right winger posing as a liberal, in other words a charlatan.
DeleteNice Article... visit page for all of deals under one roof Online deals
ReplyDeleteThe sane way to survive and live a peaceful life is to co exist. Killing in the name of God and in God's name is foolish .
ReplyDeleteWhether India is a land of immigrants or not is not the question. The problem and ominous one at that is when people start talking angrily and vengefully about correcting the wrong done by the invaders across the Hindukush.
The wrong of history cannot be corrected by another wrong of our times.
It is VERY important to know the history of nation and people.
ReplyDeleteJust like American was formed only 400years, after 90% of the natives where massacred or enslaved, today America is known as the land of the free. Truth can never lead to secular or seclusion to create a distorted society. Only truth creates the desire for change, and better development, without truth, people will say India is land of immigrants, no one has claim, no one has history, no one has a right, a hindu has no right in India because its a land of immigrants.
''India has no history'' Karl Marx
What Indians NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND is that THIS DILUTION of indian history is not democracy but an attack on Indian democracy of 6000years. Would it be democratic to say Europe has no history, its a land if immigrants? Would it be logical to say America was always a christian euroepan nation, erasing 10,000years of Native American history in one single swoop?
Rome before creating christianity followed Mithra, who romans claimed came form persia their ancestoral origins. Persians know that Mithra and Zoroaster came from India, Indian Hindu history 100% undermines Abrahamic history of the middle east. Aryan theory is a MASKED VERSION of noahs lineage. Noah had three sons, one dark skin, two light skinned. Light skinned sons are called shem and japeth, dark skinned was called ham/canaan. Shem and japeth are european christians, shem are arab muslims, now the abrahamic religious ideology states that the god of abraham is the only one, and the correct one, all others being false, and it was from Noahs sons shem and japeth that civilisation started, knowledge came, writing evolved, agriculture, and this took place in the MIDDLE EAST. The belief goes onto state that shem and japeth had a devine right to enslave ham, or dark skinned non caucasians. Now Aryan theory is AN EXACT REPLICA of this religious belief, of white aryans tribes from europe/middle east invaded india and enslaved the black dravidians from africa. This is told in India as a HISTORICAL FACT, when its actually a religious belief of Abrahamic people.
This is why its important to KNOW YOUR OWN HISTORY because it gives you a sense of integrity and truth.
Now Katju was educated in a christian missionary english type education, where his education revolves around the events of europeans and christians, of which HE WAS NEVER PART OF.
Now hes educated in English Common Law.
Where does that originate from?
ENGLISH common law based on Ten Commandments.
About the year 1230—just after the Magna Charta—Henry Lord Bracton thoroughly organized Britain’s Common Law system into four Latin volumes called On the Laws and Customs of England. Henry de Bracton—called the “Father of Common Law,”—was an ecclesiastic who had been a Rector, an Archdeacon, and a Chancellor of Exeter Cathedral. That was typical for the legal profession in England.
In those days, all lawyers were clerics, departments of government were called ministries, the King of England was designated the “Vicar of Jesus Christ,” and government officials were ministers. Lord Bracton believed all laws must end in and lead to the will of God.
Go to the STATES and you will see Moses, on the supreme court building. When Europeans and Christians talk about ''LAW'' the word ''LAW'' is attributed to Moses's LAW.SO whenever LAW was used in the creation of the american legal system, LAW meant a reference to Biblical Law.
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Does India have the same origins as abrahamic nations, which invaded 80% of the world to ONE COMMUNAL BELIEF?
SC Judgment on Hinduvta, or Ancient Indian law:
"The King should afford protection to compacts of associations of believers of Veda (Naigamas) as also of disbelievers in Veda (Pashandis) and to others". (Narada Smriti).
____________
This is what i call Dharmic Democracy, predating everything from the west by many thousands of years.
Katju represents the colonial mentality of the west.
EXTRACTS FROM THE JUDGMENT
ReplyDeleteOF HON'BLE SUPREME COURT
(1994) 6 SUPREME COURT CASES - 360
[BEFORE M. N. VENKATACHALIAH, CJ AND A. M. AHMADI,
J. S. VERMA, G. N. RAY AND S. P. BHARUCHA, JJ]
[TRANSFERRED CASE (C) NOs. 41, 43 AND 45/1993]
Dr. M Ismail Faruqui And Others Petitioners
Versus:
Union Of India And Others Respondents
34. A reference to the Address of the President of India, Dr. Shankar Dayal Sharma, as the then Vice-President of India, on "Secularism in the Indian Ethos" while delivering Dr. Zakir Hussain Memorial Lecture of Vishva-Bharati, Shantiniketan, on 29-4-1989 is useful. Therein, her referred to the difference between our understanding of the world `secular' and that in the West or its dictionary meaning, and said:
"We in India, however, understand secularism to denote `Sarva Dharma Samabhaav': an approach of tolerance and understanding of the equality of all religions.
* * * *
The philosophical approach of understanding, co-existence and tolerance is the very spirit of our ancient thought.
* * * *
The Yajur Veda states:
`May all beings look on me with the eyes of a friend. May I look on all beings with the eyes of a friend. May we look on one another with the eyes of a friend.'
A very significant manifestation of secular outlook is contained in the Prithvi Sukta in the Atharva Veda:
This Earth, which accommodates peoples of different persuasions and languages, as in a peaceful home - may it benefit all of us.
`Oh, Mother Earth, give to us, as your children the capacity to interact harmoniously; may we speak sweetly with one another.'
And the Rig Veda emphatically declares:
`All human beings are of one race.'
Thus a philosophical and ethnological composite is provided by ancient Indian thought for developing Sarva Dharma Samabhaav or secular thought and outlook. This enlightenment is the true nucleus of what is now known as Hinduism."
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Abrahamic religions DO NOT ACCEPT ANY OTHER RELIGION, ESPECIALLY HINDUISM, SIKH, BUDDHIST OR JAIN. Religions not form Abrahamic sects.
So in India we have common British law based on Biblical Law, and this is called DEMOCRACY!.
Now imagine Chinese law in Europe, would those opposing it be classed right wing or protectors of democracy?
Dharmic law is being attacked, via Hinduism by the Abrahamic funded Secular/Seclusionist movement. How many know that the Catholic church is the largest owner of land in India after GOI?....How many know that ST XAVIERS school in Delhi an elitist english school that honors a BRUTAL white christian racist called ST XAVIER? How many people know that the largest tranfer of wealth was carried out during the christian occupation of India?........
DeleteThis is why its VERY important to protect the truth and integrity of all information.
What shocks me is that KATJU is a highly educated person, yet his knowledge is so biased and warped, it makes me shudder to think how the common man india is being manipulated by ''democratic terrorist''
(ADDRESS BY DR. SHANKAR DAYAL SHARMA, PRESIDENT OF INDIA, THE NATIONAL LAW SCHOOL OF INDIA UNIVERSITY)
ReplyDeleteThe Brihadaranyakopanishad identified Dharma with Truth, and declared its supreme status,.
[There is nothing higher than Dharma. Even a very weak man hopes to prevail over a very strong man on the strength of dharma, just as (he prevails over a wrongdoer) with the help of the King. So what is called Dharma is really Truth. Therefore people say about a man who declares the truth that he is declaring dharma and about one who declares dharma they say he speaks the truth. These two (dharma and truth) are this.]
A similar thought is expressed in the Ayodhya-kanda of the Valmiki Ramayana, in Verse- 10, Sarga- 109:
( Truth is the fundamental basis of the State; indeed the whole universe rests on Truth.)
The Rg Veda states that the Law and Truth are eternal born of sacrifice and sublimation :
-Rg Veda X- 190-1
The Niti Vakyamrit begins with the statement:
The Yajnavalkya Smriti states:
(The Shruti, the Smriti, the approved usages, that which is agreeable to one's inmost self or good conscience, and has sprung from due deliberation, are ordained as the foundation of Dharma.)
Chanakya had stated (Chanakya Sutram 234) "Law and Morality sustain the world."
The Vaisheshika Sutra defines Dharma as: "that from which results true happiness":
The Bhagwad Gita refers to
Focussing on aspects of Dharma in the Arthashastra, Kautilya has indicated it as "the basis for securing and preserving power over the earth."
The essential aspect of our ancient thought concerning Law was the clear recognition of the supremacy of Dharma and the clear articulation of the status of 'Dharma', somewhat in terms of the modern concept of the Rule of Law. i.e. of all being sustained and regulated by it.
The Mahabharata has expressed this with great clarity. In the Shanti Parva Verse-3 (1), Chapter-90 says
(that is. "the proper function of the King is the maintenance of the law, not enjoying the luxuries of life",)
It then reiterates:
-Shanti Parva, Verse-20, Ch. 90
(Law only is supreme. so the king who regulates society in fulfilment of the law discharges his functions appropriately.)
In Verse-9 of Chapter-5 in the Ashrama Vasika Parva of the Mahabharata, Dhritarashtra states to Yudhisthira:
(the State can only be preserved by Dharma - under the Rule of Law.)
The Rule of Law in our ancient thought was strictly corelated with the purpose of securing social well being. Kautilya in his Arthashastra has said:
(Kautiliya Arthashastra, 1-9-39)
(In the happiness of his populace is the king's happiness, in their welfare, his own. His good is not that which pleases him, but that which pleases his people.)
The Markandeya Purana expresses the purpose of Dharma as:
(Ch. 188, Verse 12-17)
(That all persons may be happy, may express each other's happiness, that there may be welfare of all, all being free from fear and disease: cherish good feelings and sense of brotherhood, unity and friendship.)
It is this stress on the identification of Dharma with Truth and Social well-being, Duty and Service that impelled in Yudhisthira to express his own ambition, as Dharmaraja, the words:
(I seek no kingdom nor heavenly pleasures nor personal salvation, since to relieve humanity from its manifold pains and distresses is the supreme objective of Mankind.)
It is in this context that the phrase 'Victory of Dharma' could be understood, as employed by the Mauryan Emperor, Ashoka, in his rock edict at Kalsi which proclaimed his achievement in terms of the moral and ethical imperatives of Dharma, and exemplified the ancient dictum:
(Where there is Law, there is Victory).
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THIS IS WHAT MODI STANDS FOR.
AND Katju stands for Western Democracy.
Western Democratic democracy vs Dharma. That is the real question, foreign laws presented as Democracy or Native democratic laws.
Thousands of Muslim Brotherhood supporters remain defiant at Cairo sit in after crackdown that left 120 killed and thousands more wounded in worst violence since Arab Spring.
ReplyDeleteTHIS WILL BE INDIA IF ARABS KEEP ON FUNDING POLITICAL CONVERSIONS IN INDIA, SELLING ARAB RULE AS FAITH ITSELF.
TOTAL number dead from Arab Spring Terrorism: 102,000 People in the last two years alone.
The middle east is Islam central, its where it all started its the most rigid islamic land on earth, and the result it bloodshem, war, genocide, terrorism, men women attackeed, raped, children kidnapped trained in warfare, given guns, told to kill, where fathers strap bombs on to children make them walk into a mosque killing other muslims, where sunnis stop a bus in pakistan and kill every single shia on it, and then kill any Muslim who chooses to leave this religion of hate and faith.
This is the future of India and Indian Muslim if they dont accept their non islamic past, they will be sold civil war as a mission of allah, they will create such unstability in India that India will mirror the middle east, where different states attack each other, fund military campaigns, occupy resources, launch missiles at each other, and once this starts in India it will never stop. in 6000years of Hindu dharmic history it has never witnessed the scenes that the middle east witness on a dailybasis!..........The biggest enemy of a muslim is another Muslim.
The entire debate here is so communal #ithink. Fact being this world is communal/racist and there is hardly an escape! Talking about tolerance is what needs to come into existance; and to change 1 billion communal people is a LOT OF WORK.. Someone mentioned about how singapore had taken to the revolution with the vision of 1 man and INDIA also perhaps needs that.. Just critising the country and our people wont help! Even leaving will not! Add to the change you wish to see and stop first saying i am a hindu or muslim; start recognising eachother as humans 1st; respect for everyone view point is also tolerance and democracy. Debate but dnt try to impose and fight your thoughts. As Mr. Katju mentioned religion is a private affair and it should be.
ReplyDelete
DeleteThe following history is erased and diluted from Indian education, is that a good thing? would it be good to hide the genocide of jews? Or the slave trade of africans? or the massacre of Native Americans?......Answer is no. India is not a democratic state, it is OWNED by Foreigners taken during occupation, Modi is trying to free us, and to free us from the slave mentality which so many Indians think is democracy.
The World Economy: A Millennial Perspective) A Study of Groninen University, reveals that India’s share of the world income went from 24.4% in 1700, to a low of 3.8% in 1952, at the end of the British Christian Empire.
IBN-CNN A debate in whether church properties in India should be governed by the government. Some leading figures from the community demanded a law at the recently held All India Catholic Union Conclave.The Catholic Church in India owns the largest chunk of non-agriculturalland. The Priest refused to allow any talk of the land being given back to the state.
''England has a double role to carry out In India, one destroying Indian soceity, two replacing it with western materialism'' KARL Marx, ideology founder of CPI (M) family links to NDTV.
Romanus Pontifex, issued by Pope Nicholas in 1452, declared war against all non-Christians throughout the world, and specifically sanctioned and promoted the conquest, colonization, and exploitation of non-Christian nations and their territories."
''We are to teach false history, because we find in them a false religion'' -Thomas Macauley, Christian right winger who created the Hindu secular education
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When deceit is universal, truth becomes revolutionary.
Knowing your history before you, liberates you.
ONLY truth creates the desire for change, or progression, for a better life.
This is about truth.
DeleteNow Katjus version of Indian history contradicts ten years of genetic studies that india is not an immigrant nation and never has been. So Katjus assertion that India is an immigrant nation of 97% flies in the face of science, truth and logic. Therefore one can make the claim that Katju is following a christian missionary version of Indian history, of which he CERTAINLY is, if you have read the historical accounts of British Occupation then you would 100% know that this notion that india is a land of immigrants is a religous belief of Christian and Muslims, so you can say religion is a private affair which it is, but you cannot simply erase away 400years of state organised christians and islamic missionary attempts on the world which changed the course of humanity to such an extent which has NEVER been witnessed before. The whole north and south american native races where erased by of organised christianity, teh culture of non islamic faiths in africa, middle east, persia have been erased completely by the state organised religious sects of the middle east. For you to dismiss FACTUAL HISTORY proves that democracy has NO FOUNDATION at all. Unless you willing to say that history should not be changed or altered, just as its an offense to say the jewish holocause did not take place, just as its as offensive to dilute Indian history.
You cannot distinguish between organised state religions like christianity and islam, which are 100% political in which they push through foriegn rule others using GOD, using FAITH, and protecting as religous freedom, and Dharma a 6000year old belief system of TRUE TOLERANCE, OF TRUE FREEDOM OF FAITH.
You said Katju religion should be a private affair, that is if all religions work on the same basis. Now Hindu does not convert, which means that islam and christiainty do, so a to convert a person to another religion is pure politcal and should warrant NO RELIGIOUS PROTECTION at all. Now in India the largest owner of land if the catholic church owned the vatican, yet people talk of secular, why?
Should the question be how did european elite manage to secure the largest amount of Indian land taken from tribal people and then legalised through the christian common law, of which katju is a laywer!
Its is Hindu dharma that accepts all, its islamic ideology that does not.
The question is not religion, but what does that religion stand for? Now islam 100% informs its followers to convert, but its not for GOD, or faith, but to push through arab laws, masked as a faith.
Now such corruption cannot exist in any country. This is the reason why all islamic countries are in civil war, becuse god is used by arab elite to push followers into conflict.
Now this is reason why Modi is against such political faith agenda.
Mr katju is an educated person yet his views on India are so distorted and diluted it comes accross as propaganda.
How can a person talk about Indian history having never understand the last ten years of pioneering genetic studies?
His assertion that india is a land of immigrants is directly from 19th century christian propaganda, contradicting ten years of genetic studies, and this guy is SAT ON THE SUPREME COURT of india!!!!!!
Now in America Barak Obama was made to reveal his religion because abrahamic religions like Islam, ARE NOT PRIVATE FAITHS, but organised state santionced administrations, masked as religion.
This is why Antonia Maino, aka Sonia Ghandi does not reveal her faith, because SHE KNOWS that if she declares herself as christians, then it 100% UNDERMINES her, and it then suggests a foreign agenda in her role in ruler of India.
Its this corruption of communal deceit of congress which is forcing people to question the very meaning of truth.
Modi was always going to happen, he represents the Dharmic democracy movement of 6000years, which has never invaded others, his rise is a direct attack on the colonial rule of India.
This debate is not about communalism, its the very question what does democracy and religion actually mean.
Grand Mufti Bashir-ud-Din Ahmad had issued a 'fatwa' against the first all-girl rock band 'Pragaash' of Kashmir saying singing was 'unIslamic'.
Delete2013.
Sameer shaik,
ReplyDeleteeither you are a aggrieved party of some communal violence or you are on 'stop modi' mission.
Let me bring a simple point. It is also Modi act. He opposed the scholarships to Muslim Students in Gujarat. (A scheme floated by GOI).
What do you think was he wrong? Was he communal by doing so?
I would say he is genuinely secular by doing so. My explanation. What is scholarship for a student? Primarily a financial help for poor students. Yes! in few cases it is incentive for uninterested people go for education. And in few more cases to encourage to merit with some riders. Scholarships are provided to many sections of Hindus SC/ST, backward classes etc. Basically because most of them were poor for centuries. But why scholarships to Muslims who were ruling community for nearly a millennium? Do not forget that 40% of India was under Muslim rule even during British Raj.
We are in age of self-driven development. Should government grant bribe to rich people to move themselves upward?
Offer every citizen the same opportunity, same concession, same consideration uniformly based on common criterion. But not on religion. Otherwise it is not secular but government sponsored communal discrimination.
BTW, time has come for India to review undeserved incentives based on caste and gender also. There is so much awareness about growth. If people do not want struggle for upward mobility, let they be there.
Mr. Katju seems to be lost in time machine. He just rephrased infamous Aryan invasion theory (AIT) floated by MaxMullar (whatever intentions were) two centuries ago. It is time he updates his library and spend sometime on "Out of India theory" (OIT). AIT primarily based on Indo European languages is being debunked in many aspects.
ReplyDeleteSir, you talk about secularism. But people like me have no trust in your words. The reason is that our country has different rules for different groups. One religion is allowed to practice polygamy when it should be not allowed for any one. we all talk about UK and Western countries but do they allow this? Next we also do not have uniform law for all irrespective of caste or religion. The women of a certain religion are oppressed and restricted and no one is there to support them - the religion uses strong arm tactics to bully all. Today a lady who represents the women of this religion was about to talk in Chennai about a topic and Police refused permission for her. Is this democracy and free speech? The day people like you talk about this in open is the day you will get respect from people like me and my friends. If you cannot openly criticize these practices, then please also do not talk about Hinduism which is far more benevolent and open to reforms
ReplyDeleteMr Katju, please read article in The Hindu yesterday about Kashmir riots. Written by a muslim, it says that in previous conflcits, Pandits were massacred in hordes. Those were the exact words coming from a muslim about Kashmir Pandits, sir. where is the hue and cry about that? We all spent so much time targeting Modi but a far bigger genocide in the name of religion which was not triggered by anything like the Godhra incident, happened in India and no one talks about that. Why everyone is dancing to the tunes of this particular minority community like this? An ordinary passive hindu who never had interest in these matters, I am asking these questions today and the reason and blame squarely lies with congress and this minority.
ReplyDeleteSorry that is the bitter truth. India and Hinduism is being unfairly targeted today and people like you, sir, are abetting this crime.
Akbar defined modern India ? and promoted secularism ? There are lies and then there is kaju...
ReplyDeleteNext he'll say Aurangzeb defined India's military strategy...
Kaju, secularism means dis-association of Politics and religion. Since ancient times this was the case in India and every king followed it.
THE ROLE OF MEDIA TO PROMOTE SECULARISM WRITTEN BY JUSTICE KATJU
ReplyDeleteIS THOUGHT PROVOKING AND EXCELLENT. EVERY INDIAN MUST READ IT.
WE MUST BE GRATEFUL TO HIM. LAKSHMANA KUMAR, TANUKU (W.G.DIST.)