Monday, 19 November 2012

Why I can't pay tribute to Thackeray


His bhumiputra theory flies in the face of our Constitution and works against the unity needed to ensure development


Muppadhu kodi mugamudayal
Enil maipuram ondrudayal
Ival Seppumozhi padhinetudayal
Enil Sindhanai ondrudayal
(This Bharatmata has 30 crore faces
But her body is one
She speaks 18 languages
But her thought is one)
– Tamil poet Subramania Bharathi


Bhedad gana vinauyanti bhinnah supajapah paraih
Tasmat samghatayogesu prayateran ganah sada
(Republics have been destroyed because of internal divisions among the people;
Hence a republic should always strive to achieve unity and good relations among the people)
– Mahabharat, Shanti Parva, chapter 108, shloka 14

Tesam anyonyabhinnanam svauaktim anutisthatam
Nigrahah panditaih karyah ksipram eva pradhanatah
(Therefore the wise authorities should crush the separatist forces trying to assert their strength)
– Mahabharat, Shanti Parva, 108:26

Political leaders, film stars, cricketers, etc. are all falling over one another to pay tribute to the late Bal Thackeray. Amidst this plethora of accolades and plaudits pouring in from the high and mighty, I humbly wish to register my vote of dissent.
I know of the maxim De mortuis nil nisi bonum (of the dead speak only good), but I regret I cannot, since I regard the interest of my country above observance of civil proprieties.
What is Bal Thackeray’s legacy?
It is the anti-national ‘sons of the soil’ (bhumiputra) theory.
Article 1(1) of the Indian Constitution states: “India, that is Bharat, shall be a Union of States.”
Thus, India is not a confederation but a union.
Article 19 (1) (e) states: “All citizens shall have the right — to reside and settle in any part of the territory of India.”
Thus, it is a fundamental right of a Gujarati, south Indian, Bihari, U.P.ite, or person from any other part of India to migrate to Maharashtra and settle down there, just as it is of Maharashtrians to settle down in any part of India (though there are some restrictions in J&K, and some North-East States, due to historical reasons).
The bhumiputra theory states that Maharashtra essentially belongs to Marathi people, while Gujaratis, south Indians, north Indians, etc. are outsiders. This is in the teeth of Articles 1(1) and 19(1)(e) of the Constitution. India is one nation, and hence non-Maharashtrians cannot be treated as outsiders in Maharashtra.
The Shiv Sena created by Thackeray attacked south Indians in the 1960s and 70s, and vandalised their restaurants and homes. In 2008, Biharis and U.P.ites living in Mumbai (the bhaiyyas who eke out a livelihood as milk and newspaper vendors, taxi drivers etc.) were described as infiltrators and attacked, their taxis smashed, and several beaten up. Muslims were also vilified
This, of course, created a vote bank for Thackeray based on hatred (as had Hitler, of whom Thackeray was an admirer), and how does it matter if the country breaks up and is Balkanised?
Apart from the objection to the ‘sons of the soil’ theory for being anti-national and unconstitutional, there is an even more basic objection, which may rebound on Thackeray’s own people.
India is broadly a country of immigrants (like North America) and 92-93 per cent of the people living in India today are not the original inhabitants but descendants of immigrants who came mainly from the north-west seeking a comfortable life in the sub-continent (see the article ‘What is India?’ on my blog justicekatju.blogspot.in and the video on the website kgfindia.com ).
The original inhabitants (the real bhumiputra) of India are the pre-Dravidian tribals, known as Adivasis (the Bhils, Gonds, Santhals, Todas, etc.) who are only 7-8 per cent of our population today.
Hence if the bhumiputra theory is seriously implemented, 92-93 per cent of Maharashtrians (including, perhaps, the Thackeray family) may have to be regarded as outsiders and treated accordingly. The only real bhumiputra in Maharashtra are the Bhils and other tribals, who are only 7-8 per cent of the population of Maharashtra.
Several separatist and fissiparous forces are at work in India today (including the bhumiputra theory). All patriotic people must combat these forces.
Why must we remain united? We must remain united because only a massive modern industry can generate the huge wealth we require for the welfare of our people — agriculture alone cannot do this — and modern industry requires a huge market. Only a united India can provide the huge market for the modern industry we must create to abolish poverty, unemployment and other social evils, and to provide for the huge health care and modern education systems we must set up if we wish to come to the front ranks of the most advanced countries.

Hence I regret I cannot pay any tribute to Mr Bal Thackeray.


Published in The Hindu on 19/11/2012

224 comments:

  1. Absolutely spot on Justice Katju. People like you do not (don't need to) pretend and issue fake sympathetic statements.

    And no one should take any pride in bringing the city of Mumbai to a standstill, by Thackeray's death. It was not respect, but fear of their hooliganism, which has been well known. I too felt politicians went overboard to paint him as a true patriot etc. He will be remembered (should be, at least) as a guy who spread venom against innocent people for the sake of power.

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    1. Mr.Katju,

      Note: I'm a Maharashtrian but i dont support any of the Thackerays

      I agree with your views, but things are not so simple in our country which could be solved just by taking freedom, rights and laws into consideration. This stuff is complicated, and difficult for law to give justice to every person affected.

      Also, i understand why so many people hate Bal Thackeray, but when many of his followers were broke down, i dont think that was the right time to criticize. I've been taught when to speak, what to speak and when to shut up. This incident has shown that people in our country lack moral values.

      I'm waiting for a post from you on educating us the bhoomiputra theory being practiced in other major states of our country with the support of state govt.
      Thank you.

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    2. Dear Anonymous
      Though you printed a disclaimer at the beginning of this reply, it hardly looks like the case from your mail.
      I agree with Mr Katju that most of the people who paid their respects to Bal Thackeray did so out of fear. They just want to register their loyalty towards the reign of fear that is known as Shiv Sena. Because Hooligans as they are, they might not react on that day as it is a marked day of mourning for their army, they'll figure out an opportune time later and would strike back.
      Yes it is out of fear that Mumbai came to a standstill and not out of respect. And hats-off to Mr Katju for taking this stand.

      Regards
      A Non-Marathi Mumbaiite.

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    3. well.. those are your assumptions, but not the truth.

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    4. Some part of that was fear no doubt, but 2 million people coming out on the streets cannot be any other reason than love for that guy. He has done a lot for the poor person in Mumbai.

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  2. The news item "Why I cannot pay tribute to Thackeray " was cent percent correct and true but it was a surprise to me as when most of us ditto to a stand taken by the majority,Honourable Justice Markandey Katju has pro.ved himself to be a true patriot by coming out with his opinion which upholds the constitution above all hero-worship and regional politics.
    This reminds me of Gandhi's saying ,"Even if the whole world is on one side and I am left on the other side to fight for the cause of truth ,I am ready to fight and die.
    Already many states are with a mind-set based on language and religion and are interested only in the welbeing of their own states and refusing to provide even water a basic necessity to the other state.At this juncture the article of Honourable Justice Markandey Katju should be an eye-opener to all Indians.

    HATS OFF TO YOU SIR


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  3. Yes Justice , I too cant' pay tribute to Thackery.

    vinod varghese

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  4. My 7 year old son was confused to see channel after channel airing Thackeray's footage including Andhra Pradesh regional ones. He asked me as to what was all the show about. My 12 year old wondered if the dead was a great patriot and a national hero. I told them about the Marathwada movement and the contribution of the bereaved patriarch. Both of them questioned: "Then why all this waste of time?" Justice Katju, what message is being sent to the linguistic jingoists and regional factionists through the so-called "braking news" coverage?
    I share your concern. I admire your fortitude.
    Dr M V Raghu Ram

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  5. Dear Sir, What you have written is absolutely the sentiment of every patriotic India. Thackeray's legacy is built on fear of hooliganism and opportunism and the divisive politics is harmful to national unity. Having failed in his fundamental duty of respecting the Constitution, he turned out to be an undeserving citizen.

    However, as I do not know Thackeray as a man (his image as a citizen does not define him completely as a human being), I consider your statement that "Political leaders, film stars, cricketers, etc. are all falling over one another to pay tribute to the late Bal Thackeray" inappropriate. Some people claim to know him as a good person who was willing to help those in need and therefore let us not judge those who pay their respects genuinely to Thackeray as a human being for what he may have done to help them. I hope this distinction between a wider set of human being and sub-set of citizen (an artificial juridical nomination created by law)would be acceptable.

    Regards
    R

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  6. Dear Sir,What you have written is absolutely correct.

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  7. Sir,

    I Salute your courage to put forth your veiws. This article is a lesson to the young generation to stand by what we believe.

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  8. Sir,
    I understand your stance on late Thackeray. I also agree with your views in the article.
    However, I do not agree with the "assumption" that India is broadly a country of immigrants and are descendents of migrants who came mainly from north-west..etc.
    There is no historical proof of such an event. It was a theory proposed by colonialists to ascertain their superiority over us, which rebound on them through Hitler.

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    1. dear frnd,
      you should go through the blog named "what is india" by justice katju for all the clarification regarding the inhabitants of india. he has given enough proofs and references in his article....and then only u can decide whether it is assumption or Reality.....
      the link for the blog is

      http://justicekatju.blogspot.in/2012/02/what-is-india.html

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    2. I take it you never paid attention in your history class, then ? Aryans, which are a majority of our population, migrated from outside India. So did the Mughals and so many others.

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    3. AIT or Aryan invasion theory was invented by the europeans. Although they ruled us, during their rule they felt extremely inferior as they relaized the greatness of our vedas and shastras. This they could not digest. by planting the Aryan invasion concept in our minds they tried to create an impression that vedas has its root outside of india. Our history books are full of nonsense. The jealous Mughals also brought nothing with them, they just renamed all the monuments claimed thy built it.

      why dont you read 'world vedic heritage - a history of histories' by P N Oak

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  9. After more than 36 hours someone stand paying homage to "Indian Union"... Thanks to Katju sir..

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  10. I agree with the spirit of what you say. I too found it very strange that even a person such as our PM had something good to say about Bal Thackeray. That too, after he lived through the Khalistani movement.

    But, as a person from Karnataka, I am a bit disappointed to read "Thus, it is a fundamental right of a Gujarati, south Indian, Bihari, U.P.ite...". South India too consists of several states, you know :) It is a bit odd that you mention non-South states and clump the entire southern region as one. A person as esteemed as you shouldn't be doing what a lot of others do consistently.

    This tangential point aside, many thanks for articulating something that many Indians feel about Thackeray. Hopefully, the bigotry that exists will reduce.

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  11. Sir, what I understand about Bhoomiputra that makes another sense. Its not about regionalism but the person who is very close to grassroot. But I am totally agree with your view and appreciate it. When whole establishment including the media could not dare to make a different point of view about the Thakarey. You came forward. That is why you are called Katju the person who have conviction......Mahendra Nath Misra

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  12. PRIDE IN PREJUDICE (Part I )

    Balasaheb Keshav Thackeray, rest in peace..For Mumbaikars , the demise of the old and ailing Sena chief could well mean the beginning of an end of a legacy he left behind. And for those who were at the receiving end of this legacy, it could even mean a sigh of relief. Such was the persona of the man called Balasaheb Thackeray that it attracted both, instant reverence and revulsion in equal magnitude. Lakhs of people who thronged the streets of Mumbai to pay obeisance on his final journey represented those who were held captive in imagination of his cult status for more than four decades. Lakhs others,staying indoors are those who detested his very cult that threatened their existence and identity. Love him or hate him, one just cannot ignore Balasaheb.

    Obituaries are pouring out by minutes in channels after channels from distinguished figures of media and politics. Some plain speaking, but mostly exaggerated glorification. Critical reviews are conspicuous by their absence. If one rewinds and plays important milestones in the life and times of Balasaheb, on what he stood for, the ideas he espoused and most importantly the legacy he started and presided over most part of his political life, the truth could be bitter and hard. For, it was anything but a saga consistent with a rational, non-coercive and secular values.

    Balasaheb was undoubtedly gifted with an intuitive skill to sense the fissures within our social fabric, divided on caste ,religion, language and ethnic origins. It is no co-incidence that he realised the potential of a huge political capital in this divided sense of identity, particularly in a metropolis city like Mumbai. Considered historically as a city of opportunities, it was only natural that people from across the country of all hues would pour into Mumbai, to eek out a living or to realise their dreams. Mumbai was destined to have a multi-layered composition of its populace . Plurality in terms of language, religions and ethnicity has always been the essence of its identity. A talented Political cartoonist then, for Thackeray, this was a perfect setting to arouse and incite a dormant regional identity of the Maharashtrians, giving birth to a myth called “Marathi Manus”. Deftly using a combination of satire, sarcasm and vitriolics, his oratory and prose succeeded in solidifying this myth in the minds of aimless, rudderless Marathi youths of an entire generation.(Contd next post..)

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  13. PRIDE IN PREJUDICE (PART II)
    Marginalisation and cultural isolation in own homeland is indeed a strong passion of victimhood that has huge political value. Thackeray the politician used it unabashedly as an effective currency and a potent tool to carve out a distinct political space in Maharashtra. Shivsena ,thus became the Nazi party of this Fuhrer, Sainiks his storm troopers let loose on the streets. The agenda was plain and simple. Threaten, persecute and terrorise all “outsiders”- read non Maharashtrians. This adorer of Adolf Hitler could shockingly play out with impunity the dangerous game of identity politics, as long as there were targets. From south Indians to Gujaraties to North-Indians(UP/Bihar) to Muslims,he and his party invented the causes that were inimical to the interests of his Marathi manus, and so accordingly targeted.What he preached through the party mouth piece “Saamna” , his storm troopers would practice on the streets of Mumbai and Pune. The “Pride” instilled in the Marahthi Manus was borne out of prejudice against target groups, rather than positive virtues Thankfully the goons in the guise of Sainiks could not carry out ethnic cleansing and restricted their terror tactics to extortions, destructions, arson and injuring their victims. Slowly yet firmly, this paper tiger sent a strong signal to all non-natives that they were not welcome in Mumbai. As he grew in strength, he colonised other parts of Maharashtra notably Pune. For those who chose to stay on and continue to work in Maharashtra, he sought a tacit compromise. That is, to give in to his dictates’ as and when he issues them.

    Later, as he and his senseless game of identity politics became increasingly irrelevant and a stale theme to arouse or disrupt, he expanded his themes .Although Balasaheb exhibited extreme right wing Hindu nationalistic ideology, the new targets like works of art and literature had wider implications than the narrow Marathi manoos cause. Ironically some of them, like his steadfast stand against any concession to Pakistan or whole hearted support to the Indian Army during the Kargil war were indeed welcome deviations. But essentially, he remained every inch a fuhrer till end. He revered in imposing his will on others, could not brook any dissidence or disagreement. Loyalty to him was the ultimate virtue. Authoritarianism, just as his idol Hitler, came naturally to him. Even Bollywood and business community could not afford to earn his ire and overtly offered obeisance to him to remain in his good books. The legacy of Balasaheb Thackeray, if at all there is one is unmistakably that of regional extremism, intolerance, rigidity of misplaced ideas, coercion ,vandalism,arson, rioting, and plain goondaism. All of them, when put in one basket is what Shivsena stand for today ,in stark contrast and incongruent to the of 21st century progressive mindset.(concluded next post..)

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  14. What Thackarey accompolished in Maharashtra is similar to that achieved by Hitler in whole of Germany. It is a common and well known fact that it is easy to bring a mob together, for a task, by inciting a fear factor into it...against another faction in the community..Hitler put it against Jews, Thackeray against south Indians, Muslims, North Indians etc..Adding a pinch of molded history, the recipe would be too tasty. The saying goes..every civilization gets its leader which it deserves..

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    1. Pointed hit on head of the NAIL!Jai Hind!!

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    2. That fear was needed as those communities were not behaving and integrating well. Those same communities of south and north indians were saved by Shiv Sena in the 1992 riots. He saved the sikhs in the 1984 riots. This year some Sikhs were running amok in the suburb of Mulund brandishing swords and rioting. Is that proper behaviour ? Shiv Sena gave them a warning, but if it happens again it won't be tolerated. Most mumbaikars who have lived here for 3-4 decades, south and north indians included praise bal thackeray. it's only the outsiders who get their information from the biased trp oriented media who haven't got the real picture. BT is neither anti-muslim and nor anti-migration. But north indian politicians increasing their votebank in Mumbai and then showing their strength here won't be tolerated.

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    3. correct assessment and comparison with Hitler. If Hitler is Great, ok then Thackeray is also Great.

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  15. PRIDE IN PREJUDICE (cONCLUDED..)
    Ironically Balasaheb’s legacy of intimidation played out most eloquently even in his death. While the Mumbai police issued advisories to mumbaikars as if some calamity has struck, Streets and by lanes of this maximum city wore deserted looks with shops and services closing down, peopled remained indoors in hushed silence stocking up essentials for the impending crisis, the designs of the lurking legacy was unmistakably sinister.
    .
    With the end of the phenomenon called Balasaheb Thackeray, his hard core followers may feel deeply marooned. His progenies, Son Udhav and nephew Raj have inherited his legacy to a great extent, both genetically and by virtue of close proximity. MNS,the mutated version of Shivsena is promising to outdo the latter in the dangerous game of identity politics. But eventually, like all such parochial mindsets, they are all destined to be lost in the sands of time as they will become irrelevant in the growing globalised identity and priorities of Mumbaikars.

    (PS.. Sir sincere apologies for stretching so long to acknowledge what you essentially covered. Wanted to put it in my perspective.Thanks..)

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  16. Maharashtra might extol the virtues of BT. But unleashing violence and spreading hatred against people coming from other parts of the country is against the constitution of this land. And anyone who violates it (constitution)cannot be pardoned. I am saddened by a death of a human being but definitely not because it Thackeray.

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    1. Yes this year when some Sikhs were running amok brandishing swords and terrorising the residents in the suburb of Mulund, that is very much constitutional according to you. BT has saved Sikhs from getting burnt by the Congress in 1984, but this time he did give a warning to them that their behaviour in Mulund won't be tolerated. Now if there is a fight between Shiv Sena and those Sikhs in Mulund...you would obviously say Shiv Sena is responsible without knowing the ground reality.

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    2. Who the hell gave him the power of giving "warnings"? who is he to tolerate or not to tolerate anything in Mulund?? Do you know that any fight should be condemned and is deemed criminal in our IPC?? Even with knowing the "ground realty" as you put it, I just get to know he was a sick man who had the capability of brainwashing many.

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    3. ^ Agree completely with you. Disputes are settled by law, not by self appointed brigands.

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    4. Anonymous21 November 2012 00:37 n Anonymous21 November 2012 00:37 ......... most of the time it's need ..... as per situation arises ..... something which beyond written low ..........

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    5. If there was law in our land, the Sikhs wouldn't have dared to come out with swords and harass the people of Mulund. The law in our land is subjective to votes and which community is breaking the law. In this instance, we need a law called Shiv Sena. If Shiv Sena cannot give a warning to them, then go and file a RTI query as to how many of those Sikhs got punished. You will get the answer which is ZERO. IF constitution and law would have be en diligently applied in INdia, Shiv Sena wouldn't be needed. I am not pro Shiv Sena intimidations but thats a necessary evil.

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  17. High time someone of your stature came out and said this.

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  18. I agree with you sir , not that i have any contempt for Bal Thackeray , but his bhumiputra theory in a land of unity in diversity should not be encouraged . 'Yaadhum oore yaavarum keleer'.

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  19. Dear Mr Katju,
    One of the hallmarks of great thinkers is that, they are at the forefront of knowledge, updated with awareness levels much higher than others around them. However, after reading your critique of Balasaheb Thackery i was really disappointed with your awareness realted to our history.

    What you have produced/referred to in your blog regarding orginal inhabitants of Bharat is all bunkum produced at the behest of English who were looking for an excuse to legitimise their occupation of India. Unlike Muslims before them who believed in pure violence as means of occupation english tried to adopt a multiprogned strategy. They used brute force where ever required but more importantly they fought an intellectual war. They attacked the core of Hindu/Vedic education system (or whatever was left of it after 1000 year of pounding by muslims) by illegitimising sanskrit/gurukul eduction & propogating english language through church/evangelists. More-ever they commissioned several studies whose sole aim was to promote divisiveness in the fragmented Indian socitey. Its their commissioned writers who came out with malicious/now-outdated theory of Aryan Invsasion & the concept of Aryan-Dravidian theory. They conveniently ignored all the facts (viz. Saraswati civilisation - kalibangan/harrapan. The entire country bore that illegitimate theory for more than 100-150 yrs. Now researchers have proved that it was all bull... even DNA mapping has showed no difference whatsoever between so called aryan (north indian) vrs Dravidian (south-indian).

    What is surprising that a person of your standing is still clung to this old-outdated/outmoded theory ignoring all the facts to the contrary.

    If we puruse your line of theory then my argument would be why Bhil/Santhal etc be treated as original inhabitants ...afterall so many so called modern theories are prevalent which say that all homo-sapiens came from Africa....including your pre-dravidian folks.

    My entreaty to you would be that you should check on your facts before you speak. Anybody else it doesnt matter but people do attach a lot of weight to your espousings

    Further, what Balasaheb did is nothing which the so called Dravidian parties (DMK et el) have done in past with their anti-hindi, anti-Hindu & anti-north indian stance based on the same idiotic concepts/premises as yours. In fact the newspaper which has prominently published your blog verbatim is guilty of peddling such trash in the past. They have also justified plans of killing of journalists (right-wing journalists) ...Balasaheb would be X times better then these vicious forces.

    I have not heard anything about them from you, though!


    Thanks for your precious time

    Harish

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    1. Can you please point to the research which says that DNA of all Indians is the same? including that of the tribes?. Like ramayana & mahabharata are stories and people can believe in them as gospel truths evidence is far from available.

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    2. There is enough evidence that Aryans were inhabitants and never invaded India. Please start reading more.

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    3. Dear Harish,

      My first question to you is: Do you really think you are more updated in terms of fact-findings, than Justice Katju is? If your answer is yes, don't bother reading ahead. Else, understand one thing that your knowledge is limited and based on narrow sources. Understand that Justice Katju isn't promoting the Aryan-Dravidian theory. He says, both the so-called Aryans as well as so-called Dravidians were immigrants. He has substance to back it. This is so not the theory, which you claim the British propagated. And what you have mentioned about the Dravidian parties being anti-X, Y, Z shows one thing: your bankruptcy of original opinion forming.

      That's it!

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    4. The Aryan invasion theory is widely accepted by legitimate historians and historiographers. Only nationalist-blinker wearing nitwits like Shourie, Elst and Rajaram peddle such patriotic dung: these asshats are barely historians and are complete brigands and sock-puppets of Hindutva ideology. As such they are great bedfellows with Bal.
      Don't immanentise the escathon with bad saffron history; colonial subjugation is no excuse for contemporary failings in academic integrity.

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    5. Examples for Pure violence as means of occupation.

      1.Assassination the father of the nation.
      .
      2.Killing Rajiv Gandhi

      3.Demolishing the Babary masjid
      4.Burning Father Stains and his children in their car
      5.Killing Premadasa, Adulat Mudali etc
      6.To abett in the killing of Tippu Sultan
      7.Smashing the family of Shakira Sheik
      8.Killing innocent Irshath Jahan
      9.Killing innocent women by practice of Sati
      10.Killing of foetus in the Best Bakery case
      11.Assamese and Gujarati .killings
      12.Kashmir and Gujarati fake encounters
      13.Mass killing of Dalits
      14.Sacrificing human lives
      15.Matricide Patricide Uxoricide ,fratricide ,infanticide and foeticide in day to day life
      16.Interest,liquor,cheating

      Who has contributed all these to the Indian Society.

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    6. Those who are still to update themselves on the Aryan invasion theory please follow the links:

      http://www.uwf.edu/lgoel/documents/AMythofAryanInvasionsofIndia.pdf
      http:/www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO8-JCK45tc
      http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/ancient/aryan/aryan_frawley.html
      http:/www.stephen-knapp.com/death_of_the_aryan_invasion_theory.htm
      http:/www.archaeologyonline.net/artifacts/aryan-harappan-myth.html

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    7. Very well posted comments with solid proof. I hope people practice such methods, instead of blabbering something with unsubstantiated sources. The right-wing seems to be mindless and champions of creating and spreading propaganda.

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    8. It would seem that there's just one person going around replying anonymously to every single post that tries to talk about discrediting the Aryan invasion theory. I see that there's some agenda here.

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    9. Harish Very well said. Not because you said few good things about balasaheb , but its answer to the people who though they can rite any thing and their followers keep saying well iten sir..

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    10. There would seem to be an agenda, only, where the allegedly "solid" proofs are flimsy web-links with no textual legitimacy whatsoever. It is notable that none of the "sources" have credible citations. And, a channel which calls itself Hindu-org has no agenda? Quite being a daft fellator of political correctness's stiff rule. Of course, I have an agenda: unmasking reactionary make-believe history is an agenda, as is the defense of mythopoetic notions of history with no bases in facts.

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    11. @Anonymous19 November 2012 17:16 ........agree ............ just try to solv question y dis migratn haepening .try to resolv it ....... y such questions get arise .......... try to look for that ..... here the only discussion n discution going on .. if u dont want to tribute .... dont do ....thos who wish de wll do ...... is any one ask u to do so ..... :)

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    12. Dear Mr Anonymous,

      Would appreciate if you can come out this anonymity. Now as far as source of my views are concerned. You are advised to refer the following;

      a) The American Journal of Human Genetics 89, Shared and Unique Components of Human Population
      Structure and Genome-Wide Signals of Positive
      Selection in South Asia, 731–744, December 9, 2011 ...this comprehensively bunkums the aryan invsaion theory so assidously put by the British evangelists

      b) Reich D, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Price AL, Singh L (2009) Reconstructing Indian population history. Nature DOI:10.1038/nature08365 ...a joint study by CCMB, Hyderabad, Harvard Medical School, Harvard School of Public Health and the Broad Institute of Harvard and MIT

      Once you have updated yourself with new information , hopefully it will help you to shed some of your toxicity.

      Lots of others too have raised similar questions about my ability to question the myths propogated by Justice Katju. Hopefully once they have read the articles they would understand that if at all migration happened , it happened westwards from India ...this time backed by solid scientific facts ;-))


      Thanks
      Harish


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  20. I really admire your courage to speak the truth when most of media, our own government(custodial of consitution) is continuously praising Balashaheb Thackery.I was trying to go through his speeches , I have never seen any positive approach towards any problem Maharashtra is facing like power, flooding, agriculture.I am really surprised he has spoken anything about vidarbha farmers suicide. He was surely one of violaters of law of land by inciting a communal and regional hatred among individials.There has been a anti-hindi movement in Tamil Nadu but it was never against people. To develop one region you can can throw the non-natives outside of your state or asked them to be second grade citizen.It has been right said in your article about legacy of Balasaheb.India is great country who has been tainted by people like Balasaheb, Modi.....

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  21. Excellent perspective. Patriot free thinkers like you are rare, but growing. Its interesting to see how national leaders are falling over each other to pay tributes to someone who was seen as a selfish hate-monger by 90% of the country.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Dear Sir,
    What you have written seems to be largely correct and sensible but unfortunately there are millions and millions of people in this country those who will disagree with you and unfortunately those people are also eligible to vote. Yahi is desh ki vidambana hai!

    ReplyDelete
  23. Last recorded words of Balasaheb are - " Jai Hind, Jai Mahrashtra ...Vande Mataram". An estimate of around 20 lakh people were present to bid their farewell to him. I need not say more. He loved and cared more for his country than most of us, who sit back and merely criticize government policies. His ideology, vision and methods are something that even I dont agree with, but that is no reason to disrespect his views and term them 'anti-national'. Gandhi and Bose had completely different views on national movement and vision for India, but both were nationalist in their heart.

    Unblanaced migraiton is economically unsustainable. Most countries of the world are fighting it right now. It not only is harmful for State of Maharasthra but is more destructive for the State of UP and BIhar from where the migration takes place. It kills the econonmy of the States since most of their potential youth migrate to another state. India is a federation and not a Union. For India as a country to progress it is important that each State grows and the resources and wealth is not concentrated in one or two States. He saw a problem and used fear and threat to solve it which impotent goverments overlooked. We can disagree with his means, but we must take regards of his intention and resolve to bring about a change. Atleast he had the courage to stand up for his ideologies and stick by them, without having regard for political convenience or advantage that he may have gained through compromise. Therefore, even though I am in complete disagreement to his views, I will still pay my tribute to the leader who had a backbone.

    P.S. I am a person from UP residing and working in Maharashtra.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sounds perfect

      Delete
    2. You have mentioned that you are a person from UP residing and working in Maharashtra, but failed to mention that you are also a fool. Get out of Maharashtra, right now.

      Delete
    3. To the person above, if you read this, I would like to know why the above person is a fool. Please elaborate.

      Delete
    4. Because, he seems to discount the reason for this migration. Tons of Indians live in the US and UK or Australia, for better opportunity. Likewise, poor people from UP and Bihar migrate to Mumbai for better opportunity. The person who says he is residing in Mumbai, seems to treat self with an exception based approach. Hence my remark.

      Delete
    5. @Above. You don't get it. We Indians have been beaten up in Germany, Australia, US for the very same reason. We are not only eating up their jobs but our generally greedy and exploiting mentality is fueling the hatred. Similar things are happening here in Mumbai too. People are driving rickshaws and taxis without permit. Vote bank minded politicos let land mafia loose who encroach open lands and fill them with slums overnight. You wont believe but I have seen rickshaw drivers sleeping in their rickshaws in the night. God forbid if someone commits a crime and leaves Mumbai, how is one going to maintain law & order? Constitutional right of freedom of movement across India is 60 years old when our population was mere 40 million. Post 60 years and population +1.25 billion; reforms are more than necessary for the interest of all societies. After all constituency is help people all alike. No point in feeding one section and keeping another starved.

      Delete
    6. @anonymous. Not only are you devoid of any logic but are also ignorant about posts that you chose to comment on. I am not even residing in Mumbai, I live in Pune. And it is not because of better economic opportunity but because I truly love the city and with the advantages of a city comes the fallbacks which should be accepted with equal heart. I hope you leave your narrow minded attitude and develop a more broader perspective. I do not understand why regionalism is despised. You cannot expect everyone to think like you. People are different and if you truly love this country accept it with all its diversity, which includes the diversity in political views.

      Delete
    7. @The Zmaniac

      I disagree with your statement, "We Indians have been beaten up in Germany, Australia, US for the very same reason. We are not only eating up their jobs but our generally greedy and exploiting mentality is fueling the hatred. Similar things are happening here in Mumbai too". Isolated incidents should not be assumed to be rule of thumb. I've been living in the US for over 6 years and have not been harassed even once. Also, what some goons commit on street is not what the Govt. of UK, US, Germany or Australia promote. Also your statement that our population was 40 million at the time of independence is wrong, it was 400 million. Reforms should be in a progressive way. Restricting movement of people from one state to another is a medieval idea and should not (will not) be implemented.

      @Decide to be happy

      Alright, you live in Pune. Apologies for the frivolity.

      You love the city and that's why you live in Pune. Point taken. But how many poor people can afford to choose cities they can live in? Hence there are poor migrants in search of better economic opportunities. My remark against you a sarcastic one. I never support regionalism. I used to live in various parts of India myself and moved to the US, partly because of better opportunity and more comfort. In the US, too, I had opportunities to live in 4 cities and I opted for the one, which I liked. This is called luxury. Not everyone can afford it. Your initial comment was more about defending Thackeray's ideology, which seems to be contradictory to the one you claim in your follow up comment. Now, it's for your to decide whether there should be free mobility across our country or it should be restricted? And please don't put yourself in this case as people like you (and possibly I) are fortunate enough to chose where to live and what to do?

      Delete
    8. @ above,
      very well said man. People migrate for one place to another just become of comfort and luxury. Its not their fault if the entire economy seems vested in on particular state. Change the govt. if u can do it. Harassing a common man and practising hooliganism no ways marks anyone true citizen and for the reference of the person ( The Zmaniac) apposing is you should know that no one is above constitution. get your facts and figures correct.!!!

      Delete
    9. Well in that case open the borders between Bangladesh and India. It's not the Bangladeshis fault that their country is such a hellhole. Let them come in and work in our prospering country. And 10 years down the line when they have migrated to our country in huge numbers and have formed their Bangla Muslim votebank and start demanding shariah law and start beating up the Hindus (which is already happening in Assam), then don't cry.

      Delete
    10. @Anonymous:

      Comparing people from UP and Bihar migrating to Mumbai to those illegal immigrants from Bangladesh, proves either a)Your dimwit or b)Your ignorance. India is one country and anyone can move around freely to take advantage of opportunities available. Sadly, B'desh is not a part of India and no one support illegal immigration. Remember that 1971 war was based on the fact that we couldn't put up with huge influx of refugees.

      Regarding Assam, please read some history, get some understanding about the ethnic background of the state. Making statements on information that is fed by someone seldom gives you an unbiased view. Hindus are NOT under threat in India and likewise, Maharashtraians are not under threat in Maharashtra.

      Wake up people, start applying common sense!

      Delete
    11. @anonymous. There are now too many of them and I dont know to whom I am replying but anyways..:P. See, I have never supported or endorsed Thackreys ideology. Please, read my post again. What I do support is the resolve and character of the man. We can all agree to disagree with each other. But, such disagreement must be made with regard and respect to the other persons view. Thackrey was not an ordinary man, and we must accept it. He was a great soul. Whether good or bad is for each to judge. And whatever he did, he must have done something right that 20 lakh people came to give their condolences and lakhs mourned his death in the entire State. I am deeply dissapointed to see that even educated and well to do people like yourself chose to ridicule and disrespect the other person, simply because you are protected by your anonymity. If you so strongly believed in what you say, why did you not protest openly and try to make a change. It is easy to sit back on a chair and type letters. Therefore, we must give respect to people who do more than just that.

      Delete
    12. People from inside India also cannot migrate to any state and live illegally like the outsiders come and live in Mumbai slums. I only gave example of Bangladesh as the OP had given reason that poor people need to migrate as its they have no choice but to go where they find jobs or food etc. In that case why shouldn't we help poor people from Bangladesh, it might be a different country but when you are talking about helping people what difference does it make where they come from ? Secondly outsiders are creating trouble in Maharashtra. They come and live illegally, bring crime and then North indian leaders exploit them to form a votebank and then show their strength by forcing us to accept things. Talk like a retard yourself and ask me about common sense.

      Delete
    13. @ Decide to be happy you are spot on. Those people can understand the situation. They can just write the blog seating in AC room .

      Delete
    14. @Above:

      Hitler (Thackeray's role model) had bigger fan-following. Osama bin Laden's death was mourned by more than double the people to that of BalT's. So, are the later two great souls? Going by the number of people who mourn for a person doesn't make that person a noble soul. So, your premise is dismissed. Of course Thackeray was not an ordinary man like you or I. He had some capacity, but used it in a negative way. Hence, I don't want to pay tributes to him, just like Justice Katju. And my reason to be anonymous on the Internet is the kind of job I am in. I'm an Asst. Prof and it would not be good if I air my views publicly. I'm not taking advantage of anonymity and hurling abuses at people. And is your real name, 'decided to be happy'? Pot calling the kettle black, huh?

      Coming to statements like, "People from inside India also cannot migrate to any state and live illegally like the outsiders come and live in Mumbai slums". These will be dismissed in any court of law. There is no concept of illegal immigration among people from different states. Please put this damn thing into your brains. You may wish so, but is illegal. I don't want respond any further on this topic.

      Yes, I do have comforts of sitting in my AC office, but it beats me, as to how being comfortable makes a person NOT understand the situation. We all want comforts and there is nothing wrong in that. What I've obtained is by fair means and I would never oppose people from any state trying to be more comfortable.

      Delete
    15. @Anonymous

      You are right. You also talk like a lawyer so difficult to argue against you. But you should respect different views. In democracy different people think differently. I agree with your points but not your style.

      Regards,
      Chetan Kumar

      Delete
    16. Dear Chetan Kumar,

      I don't get what objectionable stuff have I posted, so that you don't agree with my style? I've not used foul language or false premise to make my point. I totally agree that different people have different opinions. I respect that fact, but constitution of our nation is not a matter of opinion. That's a guiding principle. Hence my argument. Free mobility is part of our country. In the US, people can so easily move from one state to another, though it's entirely out of scope of the current argument.

      Cheers!

      Delete
    17. @asst. professor. You are comparing Thackeray to Hitler and Osama Bin Laden, that I feel is ignorance of what the man was. In India people can move around as easily as US. Infact, in US every state has its own citizenship, which is also not the case in India. I want to know, why have in the last few years so many Indians lost their jobs to american counterparts. In mumbai, a woman can travel at midnight in a local train and feel safe, very few american cities can claim of that.
      ofcourse, the resort to violence as a means to state his point is something even I dont agree with, but for the same reason will you disgrace Bhagat Singh or Subhash Chandra Bose. Ambedkar championed the cause of backward classes, brought about the biggest class divide in history of India, which is also legitimized by our very Constitution, which you so highly regard. Should we disregard Ambedkar? Nehru compromised with British to divide India on communal lines. Should we disregard him as well?
      Our Constitution was nothing but a compromise between the power hungry rulers, leaders, religion heads, who all wanted their protection and say in the Constitution we have today. Everyone was thinking for themselves and it was an agreement to meet everyones interest and not an interest of the nation. Please read Constiuent Assembly debates, I think you will find them online. You will be shocked to see how short-sighted were are so esteemed leaders.

      Regards,
      Arpit Ratan

      Delete
    18. @Arpit Ratan,

      Let me reply, point by point.

      I didn't compare Thackeray to Hitler or Osama. What I said was your measure of number of people mourning for a person's death makes him big is an invalid premise. Please re-read my reply.

      "In fact, in US every state has its own citizenship, which is also not the case in India". This is a total non-sense statement. I've been living in the US for the past 6 years and recently my University (my employers) filed for my green card. So, I know a thing or two about obtaining US citizenship and state laws. Americans have been creating a hoopla about losing jobs to Indians. My observation (first hand) tells me that job growth in India has been way better than that of the US. "In Mumbai, a woman can travel at midnight in a local train and feel safe, very few american cities can claim of that". Have you visited some of the US cities? My job demands I travel frequently to various cities for conferences and symposiums. US cities are way more safer than most Indian cities.

      Ambedkar, whom I have very high regard for stood up for the rights of the weaker sections of society, not by harassing others, but by giving them an opportunity by social empowerment. How many schools or colleges has Thackeray built? How has he socially empowered the 'Marathi manooos' by vandalizing others? He misplaced fear and created xenophobia to exploit simpletons.

      Regarding your interpretations about constitution, I don't think any academics will agree with you. Please don't consider my below words as bragging, but I would like to inform you that I attended DU (for my BA), and Princeton (for my MA & PhD). I'm qualified in Political Science and my dissertation was on Political Philosophy. Trust me, I'm very well read on our constitution and law. Of course, in an academic set up, we have a liberal bias and rely on right sources. Instead of google, try using scholar.google.com. That shall give you a better access to quality articles.

      The only reason for me to remain anonymous is the fact that I'm not supposed to air my political affiliation in public. I teach at public University.

      Delete
    19. I appreciate your reply. It has made me think and that I feel is the entire point of the discussion. As far as my thoughts, about US are concerened, they were from secondary sources and therefore I would not go further on it and just assume that your point of view is correct. But, still try finding about state and federal citizenship in US. Infact, a lot of states have their own constitution. I know this because I did a course in US civil procedure from University of Utah. But still possibly the guys teaching us were wrong.
      As far as Ambedkar is concerned, I feel you are being a hypocrite now. Supporting a region in ur case is anti-national, but supporting a particular caste is helping weaker section?? Dont you think that creates a bigger divide? The entire country gets divided on basis of their birth and caste. And Thackrey gave jobs, not just education. He gave them a livelihood; he gave them self-respect. He protected lives during rioting in Mumbai. Education is not the only way of helping people. His method was fear agreed, even I dont agree to it, but it was effective. But you know not everyone is looking for acceptance.
      As far as academicians not agreeing with me, I understand they havent during me entire tenure at Law School. But nor have I ever agreed with them. No disrespect but I always felt their views and ideas are of idealistic situations and they lack a pragmatic view of things. I will hold my views on Constitution even though they might be in Minority. And not bragging I have co-authored a book on the subject, the closest I have come to academics...:P
      But you have done some great things..congratulations!! Infact one of my friends did a course in world politics from SOAS. She is desperately looking for a job as political analyst, anywhere in the world. Do you have any suggestions? Will be great help. Thanks.
      Anonymity is a choice. I dont think you need to state a reason. But isnt it ironic that we are talking about Constitution and fundamental rights and you cannot even openly share your views on a blog..:P

      Delete
    20. Dear Assistant Professor,

      I agree with Justice Katju that we must work towards unity and must not separate people based on their ethnicity. I personally appreciated the diversity of Mumbai and respected everyone living in Mumbai. And, I am against any extremism, any violence done by Shiv Sena for any reason.

      Though I am not against immigration, I am against the immigration where immigrants who don't buy legal homes, who don't follow the law. I am against immigrants who are racists, who give unreasonable preference to the people from their home-states...

      Constitution is correct at its place, but the issues in Mumbai are very complex. The governance is weak to give justice to the law. Moreover government is insensitive to many issues which are breaking this city down. Amidst this Bal Thackeray's views were controversial. He had his stands, many wrong but some right. To condemn somebody's actions is appropriate if it is going to bring some change. What change it will bring now when the person himself is dead??

      Regards,
      Suyash

      Delete
  24. Dear Sir, just saw a news item that a 21 year old was arrested in mumbai for posting a facebook comment questioning the bandh after Balthackerey's death. Would you also be targeted next? who fights for the common people who express their opinions in India.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Sir,
    Agreed with your views on Bal Thakre. As Chairman of PCI, your critique of our media, is also awaited, which continously played live 'rag thakre'

    ReplyDelete
  26. justice Katju I am a big fan of your constitutional way of thinking. Bal
    Thackeray was indeed opportunist, myopic, divisive leader and his all
    actions and way of life should be condemned by all right minded people
    without any fear. Bal Thackeray was a stain on the integrity of India
    and coming generation would feel shame in accepting a fact that such a
    devilish man even took birth in this holy land. The thing that hurt me
    most is his diabolical legacy is still continued.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @above,
      i m shocked how he got "Guard of honor".

      Delete
  27. Sir, Your way of thinking is different from millions of us. RESPECT for you.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Who said men are judged by their deeds ? It is always by their means and Thackrey's case is no different.

    Thackrey in his life time has done deeds which made about 20 lakh odd people to assemble & pay their tribute to their ideological leader without signs of any hooligan act. Instead of realizing this and try to dig deep into it, we shout from the top of the floor that the Mumbai was shut fearing hooliganism? Hypocrisy at its, best!

    We can hide behind the constitution and claim what Thackrey said is anti-national but it is time to do some soul search. Why do we still have groups of people to migrate from one state to another in this Union for their livelihood? Why not we redo the constitution so that the Indian Union grows as a whole and not some individual states ?

    And it is only the lower sect of people who migrate and get affected and not other sect. Why don’t we amend the constitution to pave way for the poorer people to climb the stairs rather than migrating and get beaten ?

    Also, it is funny to note a former CJI to convince himself & others with those “historical reasons” that allows the constitution of India not applicable in certain parts of the country (J&K, NE States). If that is accetpable, why issues with Thackrey ?

    ReplyDelete
  29. Mr. Katju,
    I must admit that I had a lot of respect for your views, but my respect has gone down in a big way after reading this article. First of all your lengthy arguments about 92% of India are immigrants is highly questionable. The Aryan invasion theory has been disproved by many scholars.
    Second of all, if you cannot pay tribute to such a great leader such as Bal Thackeray it is only because of your myopic vision. You state that his bhumiputra theory flies in the face of the constitution. Let me ask a few direct questions.
    1. Can you pay tribute to Jawaharlal Nehru? He was a womanizer, everyone knows about his affair with Edwina. He was a traitor number one. For his ambition to become PM of India, he was instrumental in accepting the Partition of our country.
    2. Can you pay tribute to Indira Gandhi? She is responsible for the dark period of Emergency. This did not violate the constitution, in your opinion, I guess. She won election by cheating. This is acceptable to you.
    3. Can you pay tribute to Rajiv Gandhi? He went on record to justify the killing of more than 1000 innocent Sikhs and the police of our nation just watched like spectators this total breakdown of our law and order? Does this not amount to gang rape of the Constitution a thousand times? Not just that, he was involved in Bofors scandal. But still you can pay respect to him.

    I could go on, but I wish to stop here with my list.
    You conveniently ignore the good side of Balasaheb. I would like to emphasize that during 1984 Sikh pogrom by Congress mercenaries, it was Bal Thackeray who had given assurance of safety to all the Sikh community in Bombay. Not a single Sikh was harmed in Bombay, whereas the Sikhs in all major cities across India were butchered like helpless lambs.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The Aryan invasion theory is widely accepted by legitimate historians and historiographers. Only nationalist-blinker wearing nitwits like Shourie, Elst and Rajaram peddle such patriotic dung: these asshats are barely historians and are complete brigands and sock-puppets of Hindutva ideology. As such they are great bedfellows with Bal.
      Don't immanentise the escathon with bad saffron history; colonial subjugation is no excuse for contemporary failings in academic integrity.

      Delete
    2. PR Vinod,

      Whatever you said was disproved by many scholars in the past, and now a jerk saying it one more time.

      Bal Thackaray:
      1. A perfect womanizer and sex guru. All Bollywood under his control
      2. Corrupt number one
      3. Has 10x10 crores of rupees and dollars saved across the world
      4. Forcibly loot the business world and entertainment industry, else he would bring trouble to them.
      5. Once so cppossed to Sanjay Dutt calling him a terrorist. But after meeting with his father Sunil Dutt, suddenly Sanjay Dutt becomes a clean boy. Unfortunately Sunil Dutt did not contested the MP election
      6. Death mystery behind his Sons death
      7. when in power in maharashtra, they just ran sacked the treasury of the state and via bribes filled up all their pocket. When people realized what Shiv Sena is the pulled them down


      The only good thing he has done is he has kept the muslim power under control in Mumbai, else it world have been a different Bombay.


      One should not say bad things about the dead, but what fact is fact.

      Delete
  30. Who said men are judged by their deeds ? It is always by their means and Thackrey's case is no different.

    Thackrey in his life time has done deeds which made about 20 lakh odd people to assemble & pay their tribute to their ideological leader without signs of any hooligan act. Instead of realizing this and try to dig deep into it, we shout from the top of the floor that the Mumbai was shut fearing hooliganism? Hypocrisy at its, best!

    We can hide behind the constitution and claim what Thackrey said is anti-national but it is time to do some soul search. Why do we still have groups of people to migrate from one state to another in this Union for their livelihood? Why not we redo the constitution so that the Indian Union grows as a whole and not some individual states ?

    And it is only the lower sect of people who migrate and get affected and not other sect. Why don’t we amend the constitution to pave way for the poorer people to climb the stairs rather than migrating and get beaten ?

    Also, it is funny to note a former CJI to convince himself & others with those “historical reasons” that allows the constitution of India not applicable in certain parts of the country (J&K, NE States). If that is accetpable, why issues with Thackrey ?

    ReplyDelete
  31. Sorry for duplicate posts. I didn't realize that I had chosen the wrong option while publishing. Thanks for understanding!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You should not be sorry for your repeated posts, but for your idiosyncrasy. Comparing Maharashtra (my home state) to J&K or NE states shows you are not a NiceGuy but an idiot.

      Delete
  32. Suddenly this joker remembers Bharathi and quotes from Mahabharatha. He even uses a death for getting attention to his intellectual flaunts... why anyone should take this joker seriously...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. //why anyone should take this joker seriously...//
      Having responded to his post, maybe you know better?!

      Delete
  33. This joker of a retired justice who seems to be a pathological attention seeker, speaks of Bharathi the Tamil poet. Bharathi defines Indian nation as 'the land of Vedas undivided Hindustan'. Does this joker accept that? Yes Shiv Sena chief was fanatically province centric. But he slowly transcended that and embraced Hindutva. Perhaps that is this joker's real irritation. We will wait and see what he writes for a real fascist hypocrite of a Tamil chauvinist.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What about the above joker who is posting stupid / meaningless comments. Please re-read Bharathi. This virat Hindu, akhand Bharat trash is a propaganda created to cater to idiots like you.

      Delete
  34. Sir, Today I read about Inner Line Permit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_Line_Permit) which forbids residents of other states from even visiting NE states. The people of NE demand and support such Acts to save their culture from *outsiders*. This is really panic and unconstitutional. If there are such laws and restrictions, how can we blame people like Thackrey?

    ReplyDelete
  35. hmmm nice post.. and honestly speaking i didnt have courage to say all these thats y i didnt put any status and something on facebook or any other social media regarding his death... but i hope that one day Maharashtra will think beyond gujratis, south indians, u.p., Bihar.... if indians will talk separately then anyone can come again and can destroy it anytime.. that was our biggest mistake it is. if we wont improve our this habbit then anyone can ruin us again..

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. what justice katju said is constitutionally correct that any indian can work and reside anywhere in the country and I am also not a admirer of mr. thackrey. but I just want to talk about the bigger picture i.e the sustained and inclusive economic development of our country. As there is wide economic inequality in our country among people and also among states. Maharashtra has huge opportunities as compared to states of UP and Bihar. People from these states can migrate to Maharashtra , Delhi etc but we also have to address the main problem i.e development of these states . Politicians of these states are busy in vote bank politics , they just offer large number of trains to their people so that thay can migrate . Mr Nitish Kumar has been saaying that Bihar has been developing but in the last 5 years or more no industry has been setup and migration has increased further.
      I have been to Mumbai, pune quite a few times and has even talked on this issue and majority of the people has no problem of people migrating to the state , but what they dont like is the behaviour of the people of these states. People from these states also need to introspect. If we don't address these problems now it will worsen even further and only the politicians would be the beneficiary .

      Delete
    2. hmmmm... i dont understand why cant they live peacefully?? if really they wanna do anything for dis nation then they should try to reduce poverty from india.. automatically all problem will get solve.. but they dont wanna eradicate the probs instead of that they want to see "blood river" in this country in which people will kill each other in the name of bihari, u.p,m.p., gujarati, south indians, sikh, etc etc... where is the concept of "Humanity"?? my soul cries when it sees that people r brawling in the name of states, however we all r one "Indians".. i hope so one day situations will get change... :)

      Delete
  36. I, even being a maharashtrian, never agreed with bal thakarey's style of politics-that by the policy of devide and rule. his provocative speeches and violance by shiv sainiks are well-known across maharashtra. why does he, then speak of 'working for maharashtra till the end' when he is himself is working against people who contribute to the state's and country's economy.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. it was during his time Mumbai became Commercial capital of India!!

      Delete
    2. Oh right, when Shiv Sena came into power in 1995, the Tata's built the Bombay House, right? Mumbai has been commercial capital of India, way before this guy. The Parsis and the Gurjratis have done more service to Mumbai than this jerk, called Thackeray.

      Delete
  37. bhai it is good that everyone is looking for a united india but what is the case with jammu & kashmir why there is some rule regarding to settle there i am first of all what to merge that land properly cause indian leaders are offen feared and kashmiri separatist just burn indian flag in that teritory and in that case no one come ahead to say that j&k in indias land and just throw that kind of person out of india then i think you did a great job and one thing more first state is being formed on language bas

    ReplyDelete
  38. Wow!! Just one question are you a Maharastrian??? Its not easy to draw 10 lakh people.. the methods might have been wrong but name one leader in today's date who can do this... Influence so many people... must be something... And dont speak on behalf of Maharastrians since non maharastrians wont understand...There was Gandhi there was Bose too Violence or Non Violence there are two ways only... the cause was rights to Maratha's in their own home and believe me when i say it affects the Maharastrians. Though i dont support violence but there is no reason to make fun of the dead, yet enjoy your freedom of speech as a individual not as a group of people who are still mourning.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Hi Mr. Katju,
    Do you really think that India is land of migrants and except the people you mentioned all other are immigrants. Are you serious about it? Can you please let us know the source you read on this? Can you please provide any proof instead of making false statements. Why I am asking is, as a Retd. Judge it makes sense to provide some proof instead of speculating. We are all the inhabitants of this land and we are Indians, hope this has been taught to you?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It seems you are an illiterate person, never been to a school. You can find the proof of India's existance it is all there in the Indian History books and yes you can ask someone to read Nehru's book to you. Hope that helps

      Delete
    2. @pvh,
      u r not only illeterate but a fool. Go and read Justics katu article "What India is ?" and then come up to speak.
      Go and find the proofs youself. You will find in that article sufficient proofs for it. And dnt try to teach Katuji. He always speaks on behalf of proofs and that too in scientific manner.

      Delete
    3. @pvh

      You personify ignorance and define what a moron is. No point in writing anything beyond this. I rest my case. That's it!

      Delete
    4. Anonymous,
      Instead of saying someone moron or spamming with useless comments is not a good idea.
      Try to understand what you read and clarify, and when others question have an open mind to accept it and discuss or
      else it echoes back what you shout. You have not made any point to rest your case. Anyway, I am here to ask and clarify
      about certain points with the author of the article not to have a verbal fight with you.

      I have read the history text books and learnt that just not to blindly believe in what others say or write, question
      them as they may propogate false information either deliberately or unknowingly or we may be not be informed.

      I have no grudge against Mr. Katju, but as a common man of this nation confused with history text books I need to
      question the statement or the understanding of who the inhabitants of India are, as they are seated in the top positions of our country.

      Coming to your point, I have read the article written by Mr. Katju on "what is India?" in Times of India.
      I think there has been a lot of confusion when writing this article on who were the migrants? why they came? or
      from which direction they came?. Migration of people just dont happen for the sake of agriculture or the barren land.
      It has various reasons. By reading that article it is clear that Mr. Katju believes in "Aryan Invasion Theory", the term
      coined by Europen historians to take the credit of scientific advances made in our country in the field of philosophy,
      mathematics and other subjects. Till date there is no proof that there were Aryans and Dravidians and Aryans pushed
      Dravidians to South. No valid proof till date either through linguistic data, DNA or any historical artefacts. ***It is
      just an Theory, it has be to be proved***. It is just Divide and rule politics issue that has been maintained and carried
      on from the time of British colonists period.

      There is no rule that our so called great leaders and people at high positions write some stuff about our history
      without validating the fact and we common man need to believe it.

      Hope the author of this article would care to comment and clear the doubts.


      Delete
    5. I will pick on one of your statements, "There is no rule that our so called great leaders and people at high positions write some stuff about our history
      without validating the fact and we common man need to believe it" Damn right, it's people like you who contribute greatly in fact-finding, without citing any sources. Before you criticize, do some fact findings. You can't conclude based on assumptions. Principles if natural justice don't work on that premise.

      Delete
    6. I didn't critcized, I asked questions. Asking question is not criticizing.
      When the "Aryan Race" term came into existence, check this link:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_Race

      For other detailed analysis, check the links below:
      http://www.stephen-knapp.com/death_of_the_aryan_invasion_theory.htm
      http://www.archaeologyonline.net/artifacts/aryan-invasion-history.html
      http://www.hinduwisdom.info/aryan_invasion_theory.htm

      As I said before "Aryan invasion" is a theory, till date there is no valid proof.
      The article in this blog has concluded that approx 92% of people in India are
      not original inhabitants without any valid facts, not that I have concluded. Hope you are clear.

      Our leaders say something without valid facts and common man need to do the fact finding?
      Than they have to accept what we say, right?

      Delete
    7. You cite sources like these? http://www.hinduwisdom.info/aryan_invasion_theory.htm

      Please base your conclusions on credible sources. Go to scholar.google.com and check for some research papers. You will find none to support your claims. However, I agree with you point that some of leaders make statements without valid facts. Best example is Dr. Swamy. I'm not saying you should back every word of yours from reputed sources. Original opinions are welcome, though it should pass the test of logic.

      I suppose I have made my point. I rest the case!

      Delete
  40. Mr. KATJU, Please go Ahead and Show us atleast 100 True Followers of urs who can Die for you...BOSS I will salute u Dear.... You dont knw much about Mumbai and Mumbaikars.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I disagree strongly! If you can pay tribute to Rajeev Gandhi and Indira Gandhi who played divide and rule politics in India since 65 years you ought to pay tribute to Thackeray as well. A true Hindu is always secular and a secular man cannot be communal as you think and claim Thackarey was.

      Delete
    2. Big lecture small. To show their love and being a true follower not even ONE so called shiv sena memeber died or jumped in the burning chetha of Bal Thackaray. They left him burning there and all were watching it and when he turned into ashes all went home. Mr. Katju has been practising Law and knows India and its constitution much more than your ancestors and he know it way before you were born on planet Earth. Jai Hind

      Delete
    3. Constitution is merely the will of the people. It is the people who are supreme. And people in enormous numbers came to support Thackeray. Constitution is nothing but words on a piece of paper. Law is what can be enforced, and in Maharashtra for a long time Thackeray was the Law and the Constitution.

      Delete
    4. "Constitution is merely the will of the people" You genius, if that was the case, abolishing slavery would have still been a dream. Constitution is a guiding principle, put together by bright minds. Please get your premises right, before writing stuff in a judgmental tone.

      Delete
    5. I wish you had read the Constitution, it starts by - 'WE, THE PEOPLE OF INDIA, having solemnly resolved to constitute India... ' and ends as - 'DO HEREBY ADOPT, ENACT AND GIVE TO OURSELVES THIS CONSTITUTION.' And if your statement - 'Constitution is a guiding principle, put together by bright minds.' is true, we should call ourselves an aristocratic state and not a democracy. Also, I suggest you read Hart's Concept of Law. Please google and read the things I have written you will understand.

      Delete
    6. And thanks man..I know I am a genius..:D

      Delete
    7. Alright, let's look into your words and then carry this argument / discussion forward.

      Let's for a moment assume my words were wrong and your words were correct. So, as per that 'we the people' represents the majority view (principle of democracy). So, 'we the people' have a firm faith in constitution. However you show less regard to it as you opine it's a compromise. Right? So, would that mean you will not abide by it? Try doing so and law will take it's own course. Quite often than not, people keep citing me that in the US, freedom of speech is guaranteed and people can say what they want to. To such people, I reply, 'try shouting fire in a crowded theater' Everything is subject to reasonable restrictions and essential aim is to maintain law and order, peace and harmony.

      And your really thought I was calling you a genius? You don't get sarcasm, do you?

      Delete
    8. See as per your argument Thackrey did not abide by the Constitution, but did the law take course with him. Infact he got a State funeral. So does Constitution apply to some and doesnt apply to others? Quite apparently you hold the Constitutional document in higher regard than I do. But thats possibly because I believe in what can be enforced, and not a ideal document that acts as a good face infront of the world.

      Delete
  41. IN all this MEDIA played a major role at the time of cremation each an every news channel was covering it...y was it done soo... and the major point is that why the cremation is done at shiva ji park runing a public place . . he would a good person for maharashtra people but basic public norms should be followed . .

    ReplyDelete
  42. Wow...great read....I am glad there is someone who is not scared to shy away from the truth.Mr.Katju, your articles are incredible and an inspiration for the intellectual youth of India.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Dear Justice Katju,

    Very well said indeed. It's no surprise as to why many of us are so fond of reading your opinions and judgments.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Sir when u speak about Indian union then why constitution has created states on language basis. Divide country in rectangular shape and they lets go anyone to anywhere to find job and reside. What saheb has done for us, we will not forget in our whole life.If u have any problem build mumbai, pune, nagpur, navi mumbai or nashik like any city in our state and enjoy with your bhumiputras we will not object, interfere or pass any comment on u.

    ReplyDelete
  45. No offence to bala saheb, he had good and bad sides. Good because he fought for the rights of people. Bad, he fought only for maharashtrians. But his methods were wrong. His stand was wrong. He had no respect for the constituion. He was a law himself which is unacceptable. But we must appreciate the fact that whatever he did, he did it openly. There are numerous people like him ruling many parts of our country but not openly. What laloo yadav did, what narendra modi does, what mulayam singh does, what karunanidhi does,everyone knows but no one speaks. The system has to change. Bring lokpal as we need independent authorities who without fear can prosecute the corrupts and save our country.

    ReplyDelete
  46. I did no understand the logic or theory behind your statement "It is only united India which can provide the huge market for the modern industry". I personally think federation is better for this. India was never a nation in the traditional sense..with so many internal divisions. With a federation, States with good policies will be clearly seen to prosper or go down. There will be more devolution of power and greater responsibility with common residents. People will learn to have a healthy respect for regional identities. In fact regional identity can be preserved. Entry of immigrants can be controlled using clear-cut policies. Over time the demography may indeed change but in a controlled manner.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Very true, personally i think people are relieved of certain pasts of hooliganism!!




    ReplyDelete
  48. sir ,
    I have read your article "WHY I CAN`T PAY TRIBUTE TO THACKERAY" you condemn the bhumiputra theory since it states that maharastra essentially belongs to marathi people,while gujaratis,north Indians etc.. are outsiders but even Mohandhas Karamchand along with many of our forefathers while as a British subject initiated the QUIT INDIA MOVEMENT, then can we justify Bal thakrey or condemn our forefathers... I too is against seperatist forces please clarify me in this regard....

    ReplyDelete
  49. The overwhelming outpour for an ailing orator, quite justified all of us being subservient for 200yrs under british. The divided us were rightfully herded by the white skinned Saheb's.
    The late orator legitimized organized crimes and breach of fundamental constitutional guidelines under the guise of regional politics. Call it gangster politics, rule by fear.

    ReplyDelete
  50. I have a basic question - If we wanted so much of unanimity and free movement of people from one state to another then why were states formed on the basis of language in the first place?
    Also why was interstate migration act formed ?

    If we are pointing to only some sections of constitution conveniently and ignoring the others, then I am afraid but I must say that the opinion expressed here is biased.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Q: Why were states formed on the basis of language in the first place?
      A: For better administration purposes and not for adding on extra (useless) identity.

      Q: Also why was interstate migration act formed?
      A: Who said there is such an act (except for the state of J&K and NE states). Historic reasons are not a matter of imaginations.

      My question, have you read some History?

      Delete
    2. There is a Inter-State Migrant Workmen act and it extends to whole of India. Instead of asking the OP to read history maybe you should learn how to search on Google. Will serve you well.

      Delete
  51. I am saddened by all the negative remarks made by Ex Justice Katju here. Let me put some of the best sides of this great leader -

    1. Adoption of 7 lakh Kashmiri pundit kids and provided them education.
    Ever wonder why SS has an elected candidate in JnK? Not for the Hindu Ideology but for the very fact mentioned above.

    2. Safty of sikhs in 1984 roits - When Hon' Indria Gandhi was killed in 1984; so called secular congress party went rampant in killing Sikhs across India. It was Balasaheb who dared congress touch sikhs in Maharashtra. Not a single sikh was killed in Maharashtra.

    3. Visionary - It was he who envisioned Mumbai Pune expressway. India's first international level expressway which paved guiding stone to many such projects later in India.

    4. Cartoonist - Known for his witty and closely resembling current affair cartoons, he often criticized his own party men through his sketches.

    Every person has a different dimensions. Its up to us which one we want to see. I wish people not just criticize him for his unconvincing doings but also applaud for his good deeds.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Kadak Kaka...
      Vaghache Aulad Aahot.. Sheput Ghalun Basnar Nahi..
      Hyana asech todis tod uttar dyayche...

      Jai Maharashtra !!!!

      Delete
    2. Vagh mhne vagh... Manjar peksha hi geleli manasa tumchya saarkhi. Maharashtrachi maan vaakun jaate tumchya saarkhya bindok loka mula. Ghari pala ani shaanta basa.

      Delete
  52. HH Katju Sir, according to your thinking, You will probably find no leader currently in India worth paying tribute. The "sons of the soil" theory has its roots in the reorganisation of states on a linguistic basis & naturally each state will see that they get the largest share of its resources. With this article, you have lost respect of good number of Indians. I will surely watch your blog spot to read your views on paying homage when a 'secular politician" dies

    ReplyDelete
  53. If India would really be run according to what is written in the constitution, we won't be needed leaders like Bal Thackeray.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Mr Katju,

    India is a republic and hence everyone has the freedom of speech. Its right for you to opine on something but not without knowing the history. I am not sure you have written articles when homage was paid to other leaders who died before Balasaheb did. Shiv Sena did not call for a bandh after Balasaheb passed away. You may argue that shops were shut due to fear but can you say the same thing about lakhs of shiv sainiks who had gathered to pay their last respects to the tiger? You say "it is a fundamental right of a Gujarati, south Indian, Bihari, U.P.ite, or person from any other part of India to migrate to Maharashtra and settle down there, just as it is of Maharashtrians to settle down in any part of India (though there are some restrictions in J&K, and some North-East States, due to historical reasons)". How many articles and blogs have you written about how right or wrong that is? You have done wonders in your tenure as a judge of the Allahabad court but you should not demean the work done by others. He provided safety to the sikhs post 1984? Did you write articles on that?

    Everyone has their strong points and weak ones and it is sad to see that you have written only negative things about the person whom most of Maharashtra considers as their leader

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "India is a republic and hence everyone has the freedom of speech. Its right for you to opine on something but not without knowing the history."

      I read these two lines and conclude the following... You are big JERK

      Delete
  55. Sir....you are awesome....:D

    ReplyDelete
  56. no action against u for this 1...!!!!!!!!! nt at all surprising..!!

    ReplyDelete
  57. Dear Katju,

    I was wondered what he did to the nation.He just encouraged the community clash between the people.And the worst things is educated and celebrities too fell in the dirty pit.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You don't need to wonder. His achievements are very well documented. If you take time to read you will know.

      Delete
  58. Dear Sir

    While i am no constitutional expert, but then the fact that states were created on the basis of language has created the dichotomy - where its but natural for people to identify themselves with state first and nation later and second where people are expected not to bring their regional identity in the larger interest of nation.

    may be time to re-draw the state boundaries based upon geographical spread and population therein with good square/rectangle boxes.

    ReplyDelete
  59. I am encouraged to see a person like you who dares to be true and not get drowned in a wave of sycophancy!

    ReplyDelete
  60. The man gets a 21 gun salute state honours and the first citizen of the country/supreme commander of the 3 forces is the first one to share condolences saying "In his death, the nation has lost a veteran leader who worked to help the common man and whose contributions in the field of media added a different perspective to the political discourse,".

    The entire city comes to a standstill for his funeral.

    Honestly,what more tribute can he get.

    ReplyDelete
  61. "Why must we remain united? ...Only a united India can provide the huge market for the modern industry..."

    Spot on. Market is the word. Long live capitalism. Trust the wise men. Market will eventually abolish "poverty, unemployment and other social evils". (And Marx turned in his grave, again.)

    ReplyDelete
  62. Yes, his acts were against constitution but this constitution only inspired and give way to be what he was. People did not believe on constitution and believed on him, what was his fault here?. If you say he was wrong but People believed in his ideology, it shows that there we need some correction to make Constitution more accurate. Why there is reservation system in Constitution based on Caste and religion, this is biggest flaw in Constitution, I believe reservation should only be based on financial condition. A common man wanders in courts for whole life to get justice but a politician is never punished even for serious crime, this shows how much powerful our Constitution is. I am not supporting or unsupporting anyone, I am just SAD for the situation of my BHARAT what has it become now.

    ReplyDelete
  63. hats off to you sir! I totally agree with you. Was wondering how they spared you for this writing and arrested a young girl for her views on facebook.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Instead of criticizing on others policies, better to concentrate our work and find out what is press freedom and freedom of expression. See this http://photogallery.indiatimes.com/celebs/indian-stars/sherlyn-chopra/sherlyn-to-do-kama-sutra-in-3d/articleshow/17007506.cms from a wellknown times of India

    ReplyDelete
  65. For spreading terrror, fear, raising a goon army at that shows up to protest, not treating a fellow countryman with respect.

    The entire city comes to a standstill for his funeral.

    Avove all wraped in a tricolour and receives a 21 gun salute state honours???

    This is an insult to the tri colour & the official who granted permission for a state funeral should be thrown off power, with no questions asked.

    Its time the goverment calls in the firing squad to eliminate groups of goons who want bandhs and who are succeeding ruling the town, even over local police as well as ministers, where its easy to get thing done

    Respect is earned not demanded ??????

    Hats off to you Justice Katju, for speaking what most feared to think and few could express.

    ReplyDelete
  66. There were about 100k people who do not agree with you, to pay tribute...

    So whats the point , what makes you special ?

    ReplyDelete
  67. you are speaking about united nation development, that can be attained with the equal distribution of resource not given but we are unequal so people are are well off will do but other should struggle. all desire for better living standards, earned in the name of regions, religion conflicts. i vote and pay respect to person who have helped me and family in good living conditions at the cost of others (always its minorities come in others). i pay respect. they are not fools

    ReplyDelete
  68. I entirely support your view, Sir. Its baecause of 'hooligans' like Bal thackeray...that India is still in a state of puddle from which getting up and to clean itself....is gonna take a long time.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Respected Sir, Count me as one more supporter of your views. My only fear is that we seem to be in a minority. Hope this fear is unfounded, and there are millions of Indians, especially young ones, who think like you.

    ReplyDelete
  70. one simply do not expect any views supporting Mr. BT. The ones who were staying in the city since birth, and saw the city changing into dustbin because of migration will truly understand the pain. And about the comment all indian are migrants, can't stop laughing. The whole world is migrated by APES.

    ReplyDelete
  71. Though I agree to some extent what you posted here, I am not convinced with your objective of defining the word Development. You speak about India's cultural history but unable to recognize how quickly it has disappeared in last few decades. Regardless of any person, group or institution, if it's doing its bit to save and reclaim/revive that very culture, people like the so called and self-attributed Modern India, are calling them Communal, Fundamentalist, Extremist etc.

    If I draw a inference from this post, It suggests that plucking off these communal forces will bring about development in the country. I doubt if it's even relevant to development. Development is more about system and policies which is in the hand of government & judiciary.

    Also it is disappointing to infer that Development according to you is only about Wealth, Industries and Employment. Isn't retaining our ethnicity, belief, culture, disciplines etc. and spreading it across our own land and people be recognized as Development.

    Have we become so modern that we could give up our history, upbringing, culture, belief, preachings to the likes of these few bureaucrats who take India as their second home?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Isn't retaining our ethnicity, belief, culture, disciplines etc. and spreading it across our own land and people be recognized as Development" My answer, big "NO"

      "Have we become so modern that we could give up our history, upbringing, culture, belief, preaching to the likes of these few bureaucrats who take India as their second home?" My answer, big "YES"

      Delete
  72. I agree that whatever has happened in Mumbai in the name of Bhoomiputra was not the right approach but at the same time I would like to state that similar kind of problem exist all across our Nation . In every City / State of our nation a large section of people has same attitude towards the migrants .

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Very valid point. But Thackeray was the root cause of spreading this venom. I see, Bangalore too going down the drain with such medieval ideas.

      Delete
  73. I am 100% agree with you but i am also afraid why whole media telecast in bulk ?

    ReplyDelete
  74. Dear Mr. Justice Markandey Katju thanks for nice blog. I really impressed by your collection of quotes. But do you really think those will really help to keep india united and keep Indians happy ? If yes why don’t you suggest those thing to Madam .
    If you want to know Bal Thackeray’s legacy I will suggest you to travel around Maharashtra. You cannot understand the feeling of people by seating in air conditioned room. The references provided by you look good only in books and in speeches but in practical like you need to have some one like balasaheb thakare.
    2 million people cannot come on the road just because of fear. They had respect for Balasaehb in their heart.

    ReplyDelete
  75. Mr Katju, Any Person in India can go to any Part of India and Buy land there as well.. Except J&k and some North Eastern States as you put it for Historical reasons.. If we are one country should we also not remove these restrictions.

    You have never written a blog about Article 370 Which is a against National Integrity.

    If you have double standards stop taking

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If you have double standards stop targetting only one section.. Ardh Satya is not good Mr Katju... We want the Whole Truth... So Write about Article 370 or just shut up...

      Delete
    2. A person like you is a display of ignorance of History. Read the term "Historic Reasons" and do some fact finding before you as Justice Katju to shut up. His actions have yielded results. What have you done in life?

      Delete
    3. Shashi Kiran... People like you are a disgrace to the society. you first need to learn manners, then you're eligible to say something. Apart from this, do some research and get your facts right. Don't just blabber unreasonably!

      Delete
    4. MR. Sujoria... M.A with Hons. in History, can u please enlighten us with ur knowledge on those FACTS ur talkin abt.. or else JUST SHUT UP...

      Delete
    5. Right, target people who talk sense. Just because you seem to know typing a few English alphabets, don't misuse it. You seem to be radical right-wing jerk. Mr. Sujiria, Anonymous, and Shashi Kiran make complete sense.

      Delete
    6. If for "historic reasons" the rest of Indians cannot go and live in J&K, then why are the Kashmiri Pandits whose ancestors have lived in J&K for past many generations are living like refugees outside Delhi ?

      Delete
  76. I truly respect of what My Katju has mentioned. I am surprise that today, when world is so open for all irrespective of religion, cast, etc and in modern world even educated people still belives on these seperation and treating others as outsiders. today Mumbai is a Financial capital because it is a metro-politian like New York. we have Gujaratis wit hgreat business (reliance), we have internationally recognized stock market due to other communities, we have good transport system because many people from UP and other parts are driving it.
    For a moment if I virtually remove all of these from mumbai, nothin will be left back except 3rd world village.

    Secondly, Hitlar adopted similar approach but people of germany eventually realize and protested against him. But here, we have top level politians and communist who are encouraging it. this will lead to 2 more Hitlar for future. Eventually we will give out future generation a legacy of fear and dictatorship.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @ bhautik shah ." For a moment if I virtually remove all of these from mumbai, nothin will be left back except 3rd world village." .......... ohh great pls do if u can ..... i would like to c my Mumbai ...

      Delete
    2. @ bahutik shah.... " For a moment if I virtually remove all of these from mumbai, nothin will be left back except 3rd world village."

      WHO HAD ASKED TO U TO COME HERE A THE FIRST PLACE.... I DO NOT REMEMBER SENDING U AN INVITATION..... AND IF U R SO SYMPATHETIC WITH THE UP & THE BIHAR GUYS DO US A FAVOUR, PLEASE TAKE THEM WITH U.....

      Delete
    3. Mr Bhautik Shah, please answer why your Gujarati run institutions in Mumbai like NM College have a 50% quota for Gujaratis.

      Delete
  77. YOU HAVE RIGHTLY said about Thakeray which is a bold opinion also ....He should have ARRESTED before 40 years and sent to life term for his anti national activities..

    ReplyDelete
  78. ......... NO NEED TO TALLY WITH WRITTEN HISTORY ...... SOMETHING ALWAYS REMAIN IN MIND N BETTER TO KEEP IT ‘AS IT IS’ IN MIND.........JUST LISTEN 1956'S SONG "Ai Dil Hai Mushakil Jeenaa Yahaan
    Zara Hat Ke Zara Bach Ke
    Ye Hai Bambai Meri Jaan" .SONG .THINGS WAS MORE WORST THAT HAV PUT IN THIS SONG .STILL NOW .BUT WAS WORST THAN NOW......... :) .....
    Anonymous19 November 2012 14:46 m agree with mr . Harish hahaha……..
    (If we puruse your line of theory then my argument would be why Bhil/Santhal etc be treated as original inhabitants ...afterall so many so called modern theories are prevalent which say that all homo-sapiens came from Africa....including your pre-dravidian folks. ) ………hahahaha

    - There is nothing to deal with! Everyone is welcomed in Mumbai provided they respect this city and its inhabitants. Guess this happens in all civilised countries!
    I am not saying original inhabitants or as the media glamourises it as "Marathi Manoos". Because except the pathare prabhus and some kolis none of us are the original inhabitants! Mumbai and its "local" populace are very well aware and respectful of the contribution that our country men from all the nooks and corners of this great country have made in making Mumbai. But I dont think giving respect back to the city and the people who made it possible to be a part of Maharashtra un called for. Again in a civilised country this is expected!
    Secondly, I dont know which statistics are being referred to. Because people who have been in Mumbai during bad period chronology of events that took place here have a different view on it. And when your city and house is burning, I guess Mumbaikars can rightfully tell these statisticians to take a hike!
    .......... cont....

    ReplyDelete
  79. I donot always support his means or actions. May be not all were in the best spirits, but it all depends on the way we look at and I am civilised to embrace those views! But having said that, it cannot be ignored that he did play an important part in nurturing this city and of which we are bearing the fruit without having to break a sweat! I guess being cognizant of this fact and respecting it is what we call humanity :-) Lets deal and grow with this!
    - I think all of us have someone to blame... Be it gandhi or Nehru or thackerey! What matters is how many lives u affected positively.... N let's face d fact... Critics r everywhere! N 30 lake people turning out on an unpaid visit to Shivaji park is a rare site!

    - ...... comparison of city to country ..its greatness of city ....... ppl can talk about Mumbai ....... its always great thing about Mumbai........ understand the character of Mumbai ( AS EVERY COUNTRY, EVERY STATE , EVERY CITY , EVERY LANE OF CITY HAS ITS OWN CHARACTER ) ....... those who understand goes with it ...... if u think " Its kind of useless and obsolete topic to say anything about it here" so y u.......???????? everyone has choice so go as per ....... if anyone dint like .... ( or didnt understand the living of Mumbai) no body force them to ........ enjoy freedom wer u want .... every one can enjoy freedom of speak .... as u enjoying ur rit here ......... so if u didnt like the speech of any one like Thakare families ( i think u only knows the current afears about it , der r n was many more.... n same conditions r arises in other states too,,, u can refer the every states of Bharat's past 40 yrs history........ u wll find it about ur origin state, or languge which u feel proud.... too.... ) .. so consider as thats der rit to speak ... i feel proud not just because i born here but i feel about my Mumbai ....... not because m Marathi ( languge is just media of communication its not everyones hand wer to take birth) but its love of it.......... climate topografi n communial life chearish n flurish here .... whatever ppl says ........ but still its the only city were still maximum festival arround all over Bharat get celibate .... try to know about life of it .. y those eho says de r local ...try to understand it from ..... u wll enjoy Mumbai to ........ still it says wellcome to all b here b part of it .... be like child n understand it as mother . if u treat it as worse so u wll suffer .... just try to understand natur of marathi ppls from the past also ... u wll understand what we actully want .... even balasaheb ...... :)
    .........cont....

    ReplyDelete
  80. - Setting up of killing squads for other religions.. Well sorry to say but this statement does sound like being taken completely out of context and a classical view of a self assuming "democracy loving Indian".
    Our constitution is wonderfully written and has all my respect. But when Ajmal Kasab is still breathing, I guess a "democracy loving Indian" should criticize it, no?
    Kashmir is still unresolved and if the lack of political will is abhorred then is it treason? Why isnt the so called "democracy loving Indian" bothered by this.
    Calling upon the great heroes who made this city is a great statement. But how many of those calling Mumbai their own know these heroes or the political struggle? Oh and lets be honest and not call us an all knowing bunch of smart ones because we read a few articles on wikipedia!
    Cosmopolitan city! Another big word. I say my generation is lucky since we have been fortunate to have the upbringing from our parents to travel and spend time throughtout the world. And this same "democracy loving Indian" learns Italian because he wants to vacation in Venice, learns German at Max Mueller Bhavan to attend Berlin University or learns to greet Bon Jour because he is travelling in an Air France flight to Paris! But the same "democracy loving Indian" finds it un-cosmopolitan to learn and converse in Marathi in Mumbai? Well why does the same Cosmopolitan learn Tamil when in Chennai or Hindi when in Delhi? I guess Mumbai is the only "cosmopolitan city" in India then!
    The whole ruckus over the forced bandh on Sunday. Well we never seem to object when we get a holiday because a leader died in Delhi. Accept it, that an average "democracy loving Indian" is saddened on 30th January because its a dry day and not of its obvious reasons. He also tends to reason the bus, train or even a taxi strike for not reporting to work. But a forced strike on a Sunday pisses him off. Majoritily because he was devoid of any entertainment on the television!
    Assam was closed for almost a month due to riots! None of us who so vociferously oppose this bandh had anything to say about it? No one seems to comment let alone protest the honour killings in Haryana? Or on the " You are a Maoist" rant by an honourable CM? May be the " democracy loving Indian" found that to be not affecting him hence the least botherance!
    Somehow these incidences tend me to think that matters like these are looked at differently or at times ignored when they happen in other states but when these happen in Mumbai/Maharashtra a different microscope is produced. Feels like a hypocrite! I hope the "democracy loving Indian" matures to see things with his own wisdom and fair weighted analysis as against the general media glorified outlook.
    I again repeat myself that I DONOT SUPPORT/PROMOTE VIOLENCE and the incident is unfortunate for its violence. But also lets be thankful that we all are in Mumbai/ Mahrasthra and not in a communist state because all of the “democracy loving Indians " are still voicing their views and are continued to be embraced and accepted by their friends of opposing views.

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  81. To Mr Katju – hav u ever talk to ppl residence/ born in Mumbai from past 40-45 yrs either so cold Marathi or Non marathi’s ……. De wll tell u better about what the mumbais life l .may be possibly u also hav heard or refer or studed the fact about Mumbai that u considerd must be written by some one by ther point of view……. N u also hav made-up ur mind on that way , I wll strongly recommend ppl don’t creat any nostalgic nusence over thos things that u hav never suffered … or else "democracy loving Indian" try to find out the answer y this happening ….. n try to solve it … don’t just arise the question or point out something ……… if u think ur smart enough come up with sensible solutions …………
    Forgive me my English is so bad …
    n this is mixed thoughts of mine n my friends… thank full C.P.

    And Mr Katju – this kind of statement n perception is never been expected from person like u "democracy loving Indian" …………. Which help to create arrogant amongst ppl … 

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  82. Quote "India is broadly a country of immigrants (like North America) and 92-93 per cent of the people living in India today are not the original inhabitants but descendants of immigrants who came mainly from the north-west seeking a comfortable life in the sub-continent" Unquote
    Contrary to what is quoted, south Indians are called Dravidians who were driven to the South due to advent of Aryans from Mongolia and who settled in the north, say some several milleniums ago (when India had been such a big country with no existence of Pakisthan or Bangladesh). Sadly in 1947, India was split into three provinces (East Pakisthan, Hindusthan and West Pakisthan) merely because of religious differences.
    Also, when the constitution of Hindusthan was drafted (1940s), there were no States but only kingdoms (Mysore, Hyderabad, Maratha etc). If the constitution envisaged unity at all, then the provinces in Hindusthan had to be divided based on directions (south, south west, north east etc which have beem implemented by the Railways as zones).
    How did the constitution allow secession of Bangladesh when Hindusthan defeated Pakisthan in the 1964 war and won East Pakisthan back. What was the necessity to carve out Karnataka or Maharashtra or Tamil Nadu or Andhra Pradesh, when the Constitution of Hindusthan prohibited the diversification based on language?
    In 1992, there was a very ugly war between Karnataka and Tamil Nadu for sharing the waters of the naturally flowing river Cauvery  The ensuing trouble took lives of innumerable citizens (Tamilians were hacked to death on the streets of Bangalore). How can the Constitution of Hindusthan allow political parties to divert the natural flow of rivers only based on barrier of language?
    Conslusion: The funny part of the above discussion is that the great Constitution of Hindusthan is sitting quite when there is an uproar to create “TELANGANA” out of Andhra Pradesh purely based on caste equations (there is no language issue involved since the whole of Andhra is a Telgu speaking State). When the constitution itself allows Hindusthan to be divided into different States solely based language or religious equations, then the same constitution should uphold the rights of the citizens of different States , be it Marathi or Kannadiga or Tamilian or Telangana (pun intended) by amending the fundamental right under Article 19(1)(e) or abolish all State names and instead adopt neutral names or Zonal names to uphold the integrity of the nation.
    (hope I won’t be arrested for publishing in the forum for highlighting the dual nature of the Constitution, and hence this post script that I am a true Indian who only want India to be more secular than it already is)

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    1. Firstly, officially there is no country called Hindustan. It's India, my incredible India.

      Get your fact right. Really, we won East Pakistan in 1964. I think you are an illiterate and have never been to school. The Bangladesh war took place in 1971. We were divided into states for better administration but not for giving extra identity.

      Your comments, be it on Telengana or any other part of India, make no sense, because you discount history, because life seems to have discounted you with brains.

      You will not be arrested as you are protect by your medical conditions. In India, mentally retarded people cannot be persecuted like ordinary ones.

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    2. Have some common sense. If it wasn't for identity why would states be divided unequally for better administration. If states wouldn't be organized linguistically we would have lost all our languages as Hindi/English would have to be the only languages which could have been used everywhere.

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  83. Mr. KATJU who in the first place asked to pay ur tributes........... And also lemme know how many people are going attend ur funeral (No Offense Meant..)

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    1. More people in the world prayed for Osama than Thackeray. Does it make the former a bigger hero? Get your fact right, you jerk!

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  84. Yes Justice , I too cant' pay tribute to Thackery. I am unable to understand why Thackrey has been "RAJKIYE SAMAAN" because neither he was a freedom fighter or Ex Minister.

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  85. I cannot really understand justice,why there was an indian flag over thackrey's body???Is he mahatma or an freedom fighter???

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  86. who is inviting or requesting you to pay your tribute ,true that Bal thakre's politics were dirty but it doesn't mean that one should disrespect a dead person like you.you are supporting bangladeshi immigrants by saying that 90 % of indians are outsiders, you discourage indians to support anti corruption movements like Anna and kejriwal , and media like Digvijay singh always quote you in headlines which means you are also old loyal of gandhi nehru family like your grandfather KN Katju ex cm of MP. Jai Hind, whoever wants to reply me post comment at my website http://bhadas4media.com as i won't read this nonsense article again.

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    1. perfectly said yashwant , i don't understand who has requested Mr Katju to pay his tribute to thakre why he is jealous that 20 lakh people came to attend the funeral which may never happen in own katju funeral, ha ha ha old jealous retired man, Regards ronvy sunny

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    2. Millions of Germans cried when Hitler (Thackeray's true hero); a whole nation - then the largest in the world- mourned Stalin's death. The man who said that the killing of Mahatma Gandhi was good because there would be more partitions if he lived, divided India into two nations : Bharat and Maharashtra. And he got a state funeral for it. Why did the likes of Amitabh Bachhan pay tribute? Because he wished to live in peace. If there is a Hyena in your yard, you throw a piece of meat. By the way, who counted 20 lakhs?

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    3. Amitabh Bacchan and Bal Thackeray's relations go back 2 decades. Amitabh is himself a powerful celebrity and doesn't need to act that way just for protection. I have been with the Shiv Sena since 1980 and have seen Amitabh come and go to Matoshree hundreds of times. Media reports anything, what really happens is completely different.

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  87. I totally agree with you justice, hai hind is the only phrase I believe in

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  88. Ha ha people are fanatics...I totally agree with u justice...jai hind...I cannot pay tribute to him because he was never a hero forget a national hero n I have no respect for him. Instead of uniting people he has divide the masses...what a ruler who has not been able to create.a strong leader behind him...absulute selfishness n no foresight

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  89. I admire at you Sir for having proved your truthful to the Justice.I salute you sir. India's Unity is not saved by any politicians rather it is saved by great people like you... My humble Prayer is ''LONG LIVE JUSTICE MARKANDEY KATJU''.

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  90. One thing is crystal clear.U can speak anything about anything ..u can do anything .. There are people in India to support u..!
    Politicians knew this thoroughly and make their hay while the intelligent and good sadhus are kept in bay! Common man has no time to look at these two groups!
    Bharath mathaa ki Jai!
    S.Natarajan

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    1. What is your point? I fail to understand it. "Intelligent and good sadhus are kept in bay" what are you trying to convey?

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  91. Well Said and I must salute you with full justice.

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  92. wooooow.......... Mr Katju ...... u become more n more popular....... what n idea sir ji........ Mr Katju s not replying to his blog ...... he's only creating the issue n left ppl to create creativeness of thoughts .......... just let us know .yeh blog aapane kyo likha if u dont want to tribute....... kisine aapko kahahe ....... den y u also shouting . i dont want to do this n that........ owhhhh......... i like the mad history that mr. katju ne likhahe............ 90% r migrant .... ( yes its true der is issue chal rahahe between " Mulniwasi" vs. "An-aaryans" from long time... n yes here i dont think hardlly any one avear about it )....... but y u stopd here .. go further deep in history .... "owwhhhhhh my god..... m African .... man evolve from homo sepian ....... n sapiens found in African region ....... wow..... either reply here or delete ur so called "Democratic" thoughts... ur comments also creating nusence among the ppl ......... n here i can say that .ppl thos whos talking about there fundamental rights 99% of dem ... abhitak bhart ka constitution padhabhi nahi hoga..... IT' FACT ... NO no one can pretend it ..it's fact ... n every one here wll accept it... Once again congratz to mr.Khatju....... i know the BHARTIYAS MENTALITY N U SUCCSEED ... BUT EVERYONE SHULD REMEMBER ... PPL FOLLOWS WRITTEN RIGHT N RULES...... BUT DER R SOME UNWRITTEN RIGHTS N RULES....... MR. khatju ..... aapne aapake artical me constitution ka ek part dalna bhul gaye shyad .. which talks about fundamental rights about so called "bhumiputra"...... every one want der voice to raise ......yes i feel bad about both Mr. B. Thakare n that girl... PPLS TALKING THAT ITS EVERY ONE FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT'S.HUH.... JUST LOOK AT THE TIME WHEN SHE SPEAK OUT.... N AGAR ITANAHI HE .. TO Y U DONT WANT THAKARE TO RAISE HIS SOUND... DONT U THINK FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS NOT FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS OF HIS ALSO ....... MR. KHATJU ....... UR MISS DIRECTING PPLS BY GIVING N PUTTING WHICH U WANT TO SHOW BY NOT SHOWING REAL TRUTH , REAL BAD JOB BY PPL LIKE U ..... :) ....... AAPNE BHI MAUKA DEKHAKE CHAOUKA MARA... GOOD........ KEEP GOING.... SO CALLED BLIND FOLOWERS R DER WITH U ALSO.......HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA....... :)) .. M BHARTIYA.... OWWWWW. SHOULD I CALL MYSELF AFRICAN ( AS PER MAN EVOLUTION FROM AFRICAN SEPIAN ...??? )......... M HUMAN ... ME MUMBAIT JANMALELA.... MARATHI BHASHIK MAHARASHTRIYA..... BHARTDESHACHA HINDI ...AWAGHE WISHWACHI MAZE GHAR.... :)

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    1. This is true Thackeray talk. This is what appeals to quite a few semi-literate Maharashtrians while the decent majority keep quiet - some out of fear, others not wanting to waste their time.

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    2. Vishu Menon22 November 2012 20:53............... good joke.............. :))

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  93. Dear Sir,

    It is really shameful of what happened in Mumbai. This was absolute blatant & appalling violation of constitutional and human rights! I was really shocked & hurt! Even Vladimit Putin would not something similar in Russia! Similar instances are taking place in many big cities in India! Now we have to be extra careful about sharing stuff on virtual world! Freedom of Speech? I am afraid we cannot even do that on FB or personal email even if we have bonafide intention

    The girls were so corrrect in pointing out that the death anniversaries of greats like bhagat singh & sukhdev should be celebrated by way of bandh! Maharashtras has her own heroes, greats like Shivaji, Bal Gangadhar Tilak, Vinayak Damodar Savarkar, Gopal Ganesh Agarkar and much more. Why Maharashtra cannot celebrate these days in a bigger fashion! Why it is that Mumbai a city that never sleeps/stops has to work on the day after 26/11 attack and it has to stop on a political leader's death! Both of these incidents were extreme and shameful! Even top rated criminals are not pursued, arrested & prosecuted the way these girls were found and arrested! Even FBI would have been proud!


    I have friends who wrote similar stuff and even worse on FB, but they are in USA or UK. So they were lucky to survive the wrath of Shiv Sena!

    Bandh should rarely take place considering the facts that it causes massive loss to the economy, both the billionaires & BPL people! One should be more concerned about the latter and daily labourers as they get their daily meal based on their daily earning! And what is the obsession with bandh or riot to remember a person
    Best way to respect a person, who has recently demised & or long back, should be in a peaceful & harmomious manner, candle light procession, half day etc at maximum can be observed or done!

    Shiv Sena is a political party and not a religious group and they never represent Hinduism, Hindus or India or Bharat stands for! They are self proclaimed saviour of Marathis & Maharashtra. This is so wrong on so many levels!


    "The original inhabitants (the real bhumiputra) of India are the pre-Dravidian tribals, known as Adivasis (the Bhils, Gonds, Santhals, Todas, etc.) who are only 7-8 per cent of our population today.
    Hence if the bhumiputra theory is seriously implemented, 92-93 per cent of Maharashtrians (including, perhaps, the Thackeray family) may have to be regarded as outsiders and treated accordingly. The only real bhumiputra in Maharashtra are the Bhils and other tribals, who are only 7-8 per cent of the population of Maharashtra."


    Incredible analyzing of facts! Sir this is an incredible piece of writing!

    Thanking you
    Yours sincerely
    Tirthankar Das
    BA LLB Hons WBNUJS
    LLM London

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  94. Dear Sir,.
    you have the bold opinion..the country now needs..discussions are going..am sure it will stregthen our integrity.. weaken separtism

    i am from kerala here one of the news paper termed thackery as leader who have narrow minded & facist . With your opinion i am happy that india is going right.. and waiting for your opinion on communalism..& regionalism

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  95. you are riight mr katzu in not paying tribute to mr thakre,and i remember many incidence in bihar when one of the most criminal turned politician satyendra dubey was killed during loksabha election in 1997-8 similar silence was here in whole of the east champarAN distt.

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  96. I agree with Mr Katju.....

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  97. Will the Mumbai Police arrest Justice Katju and all (at least most) of these commentators for "hurting religious sentiments"?. Shouldn't some sitting judge throw out the policemen (sorry, officers) who decided to arrest that teenage girl who reminded us about the sacrifices of Bhagat Singh and other true patriots of this Country and the other girl who 'liked' that patriotic comment? The police force in Mumbai is so brainwashed by Thckerayism that you might have to throw out half of them.

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    1. this is like "semi-literate" to ask such stupid question " Will the Mumbai Police arrest Justice Katju and all (at least most) of these commentators for "hurting religious sentiments"? "

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  98. if u dont want. simple dont do it , why every one is shoutting ??

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  99. @Justice Katju Sir,
    We stand by u Sir, I still remember your Taliban remark, by the activities of Shiv Sainiks in Palghar and of Palghar Police, i will not hesitate in saying that Shiv Sena's ideology is much dangerous than of Taliban.

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  100. Bravo, Bravo and Bravo.I hope that there are hundreds of Millions like Katju in India

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