Tuesday, 3 March 2015

The Chaturvedis

Many people in India have the surname Chaturvedi. They are also called Chaubes ( just as Dwivedis are also called Dubes ). Many Chaturvedis are my friends.

 There are three interesting things about Chaturvedis :

 (1) They were originally concentrated in the area comprising of the present districts of Mathura, Agra, Firozabad, etc ( the Brajmandal ) in the state of Uttar Pradesh, though of course they later spread elsewhere, e.g. to Malwa where they are called Malviyas ( e.g. Pt.Madan Mohan Malviya ), and some even went abroad.. However even now there are a lot of Chaubes in the Mathura region and nearabout, and they are bhaktas of Lord Krishna.

(2) They call themselves Brahmins, but traditionally a Chaturvedi boy could only marry a Chaturvedi girl, and not other Brahmans like Mishras, Shuklas, Dwivedis, Trivedis, Bajpais, Pandes, etc

(3) They are usually fair, handsome and intelligent.
What is the historical origin of Chaturvedis ? This could be an interesting subject of research.
 I would like to present here my own views.

As I pointed out in my article ' What is India ?' ( see on my blog justicekatju.blogspot.in and the website kgfindia.com ), India is broadly a country of immigrants, like North America.. As I have explained there, people migrated into India for thousands of tears, mainly from the North West ( and to a lesser extent, from the North East), because people migrate from uncomfortable areas to comfortable ones, and India was a very comfortable region, with level land, fertile soil, plenty of water for irrigation, etc

So for thousands of years people kept migrating into India, and hardly anyone left India ( except on two occasions,as indentured plantation labour to Fiji, Mauritius, Guina, etc in the 19th century during British rule  and the diaspora of highly skilled professionals over the last 30-40 years to North America, etc ). Why should anyone migrate from India, which is comfortable, to a place like Afghanistan, which is cold, mountaneous, covered with snow for several months in a year, and so uncomfortable ?

 Of course, these migrations and invasions into India were probably not as a steady stream, but sporadically, in waves.

So my guess is that the ancestors of the present Chaturvedis came from the North West of India ( since they have Caucasian, not Mongoloid, features ) in some wave of invasion or migration, thousands of years ago, and settled down in the Mathura-Agra region.

 Now India had tremendous assimilitative capacity. Everybody who came here from outside got assimilitated here. So when the ancestors of Chaturvedis came and settled in India, the local Brahmins told them that they too will be regarded as Brahmins, but they must inter marry only among themselves. Other Brahmins would not marry them. So that is how Chaturvedis traditionally married only among themselves.

 I would often tease my Chaturvedi friends, by jokingly telling them that they were not Brahmins at all. This would make them very upset, and they would insist that they are Brahmins. Some would ask me what they were ?

 Sometimes, to please them, I would tell them that they are Greeks, descendants of the Greek soldiers who came in the army of Alexander the Great in 326 B.C., and settled down in India at the time of Alexander's General Seleucus Nicator, who inherited the Eastern part of Alexander's Empire on his death.

That is why, i would tell them, you are so fair, handsome and intelligent like the ancient Greeks
 But at other times, to pull their legs, I would tell them that they are descendants of barbarian Huns


  1. This comment has been removed by the author.

  2. Mr. Katju, thnks a ton for digging out my roots....but i got cnfused...ki , u hav teased me or pleased me .....but anywys good to read..... Azad Chaturvedi...

  3. Sir,
    Are not the Chaturvedis who had mastered all the four vedas?

    1. That is a myth. It takes 12 years to master one Veda.So it is impossible to master all 4

    2. Where is the time to master 4 Vedas in this caste ridden, busy world, it is the name, now he will be the MBA, ME or so for the job.

    3. Alright! This seems illogical.
      First, How are you so sure that it takes 12 years to Master a Veda. Is everybody's grasping capabilty same as the other?
      You yourself said that Chaturvedis are intelligent. They could master it in a lesser time. What say Katju?

      Second, You say they are fair in complexion. Folks say that Aryans migrated from Middle East to India and Germany. Several researches proved that both got a similar DNA structure. Just search someday, we got a similar cultural things. 'Swastik' we both use, is an example. Hitler used it in flags and emblems.

      Question: Why do they marry among each themselves>
      Answer: They do marry with each other, but not with same blood line. No two same Doppelgangers marry each other. People with different 'Gotra' marry, which signifies they posses a different blood line. For a quality productivity. Genetic Cross, I hope you know from two superior blood lines. This is to ensure the offspring of a better Quality. (Science)
      They do not marry other Brahamans to ensure the quality offspring, which seems legit, isn't it? And another reason is that, they still stick to their lineage, and are pure vegetarians who do not even eat onion Garlic etc (Some say because it is 'Taamsik'), and they cannot assimilate among other brahmans, who got a different culture.

      Now FYI, Brahmans have always been responsible for society upliftment. Different groups does it in their own ways, but the motive is same.
      Few groups of 'Pahari' Brahamans are non-vegetarians. Now, ofcourse you wont ask them to marry a Chaturvedi or vice-versa.

      It is like, people have started blending in society these days to cope up with things. You wont expect us to have all those four vedas on my head, but yes It is in my blood. :)
      You can come with your questions up now. I will answer !

  4. On the history of Chaubey's, an excerpt from my blog.

    From the Paper "The Mastram Emotion and Person Among Mathura's Chaubes"

    The name Chaube is a dialectical variant of Chaturvedi (knower of the four Vedas), a name, it is claimed, Lord Krishna himself bestowed upon this Brahman community. Today one can most easily meet Chaubes at Vishram Ghat on the banks of the river Jamuna where they wait for and administer to pilgrims taking sin-cleansing baths in the river. Their association with this river is so intimate that they call themselves sons of goddess Jamuna (Jamuna ke putra), the river itself being one form of the goddess (Lynch 1988).

    Chaubes trace their origins at least as far back as the first Hindu mythological age, the Satya Yuga, when, it is said, they were born from the sweat of the god, Lord Vishnu in his incarnation as a boar (Y. K. Caturvedi 1968:25). As the Chaubcs tell it, their history is filled with incidents giving evidence of, as well as providing models of and for, their mastcharacter.[3] For example, one day Krishna and his cowherd friends were out playing. Krishna felt hungry and sent his friends in quest of food from the Chaubes. The Chaube men, however, were busy in offering sacrifices (yajnas[*]) and were not to be disturbed even at Krishna's request. When the Chaube women noticed this, they rushed out with sweets, curd, and food for Krishna and his playmates (V. K. Caturvedi, n.d.). In gratitude, Krishna promised that from that time forward the Chaube women would be renowned for their fair-skinned beauty, as indeed they are, and the Chaube men would control pilgrimage in the Braj area, as they do.[4] In telling the story Chaubes gleefully point out that none but a proud Chaube would have the cheekymast to ignore Krishna's hunger and thirst.

    One of Mathura's great festivals is Kans Mela, or the Festival of Kans's Destruction (Kams[*] Vadh ka Mela), in the fall of every year.[5] Kans was Krishna's wicked uncle who tried to slay him as a newborn child because it had been prophesied that Krishna would grow up to kill him. After miraculously escaping his uncle's sword, Krishna grew up to fulfill the prophecy by displaying amazing skills as a warrior, particularly a wrestler, and liberated the people of Mathura from his uncle's demonic rule. The public celebration of this event in Mathura remains a Chaube monopoly. Two young Chaube men arc dressed as Krishna and his brother Balaram. Then, they arc paraded on an elephant to Kans Tila to meet Kans, an elaborate effigy in paper on a wooden frame. After Kans's head is severed from his body, the head is mocked and paraded through the Chhata Bazaar area of the city. Just outside of Vishram Ghat at a place called Kans Khar, Chaube young men wielding heavy wooden staffs (saunta[*]) beat the severed head until it is pulverized confetti. In this violent event Chaubes publicly and symbolically align themselves with Krishna as both the protectors, if not owners, of the city and its most ancient citizens. The agonistic display is not lost upon others; Chaubes arc a dominant presence in the city and arc dealt with cautiously. Like Krishna, they have a reputation for being tough fighters and skilled wrestlers.

  5. Appreciate Mr. Katju inestigation n comments. But undoubtly its very well defined in several holy vedas etc that MATHUR CHATURVED bhramins are one of the most ancient community/society on the earth . and are so called as Bhrama Putras . According to Hindu mythology Vedas are originated from GOD BHRAMA and so Chaturvedi as well. thats why they have titled as Chaturvedi.

  6. Chaturvedi history & presence noticed in every avataar of Lord Shree Vishnu . One can easily found and read history and holy hindu books. Time to time our great hindu ancestors , Rishish , Yogi's, intllecutals defined Chaturvedi's great presence n history

  7. if you dont believe then pls dont check with locals. Better to study n investigate thru holy vedas and books . Where one can easily know and understand about MATHUR CHATURVED presence and vast glorious divine history. Undoubtly now its a matter of research

  8. Mr. Katju, your efforts in highlighting specific Caste of India "The Chaturvedi", is appreciated.

    The run of finding self is always been of tremendous interest for each individual; when it comes to finding about mathur chaturvedies, here are my own views.

    Before the ages when almost 4.5 billion years ago this earth brought into existence, Brahma, The father of creation (Resident of Planet Satlok) created some knowledge base to feel the creation in terms of earth and earthly people. There he guided us through Vedic framework of 4 Vedas; but capturing the essence of all Veda by any normal human was not demonstrated by any creature so he created his Manas Putra (sons who has been born without physical methods), Rishi Angira was one of them who ensured that this vedic knowledge is transferred to specific DNA human type called "Mathur Chaturvedi", these people were able to learn all 4 vedas in a shorter life span and before completion of their Brahmcharya ashram however as mentioned in other Purans and brahman grantha there takes minimum 4 Janm (Human life) to completely understand One Veda and thus to learn 4 vedas other human requires 16 life means 1:16 ratio of mind utilization. There carried knowledge of vedas in SHROUT form and later they have been given residence in Madhupuri (One of the oldest holi city from satyug).

    They do not marry with other brahmins to save purity of DNA, they consists.

    Post settlement of them in mathura there had been couple of big migrations: when Ram killed Ravana, he has found guilty of Brahmhathya so to do prayashchit he has been sent to call mathur chaturvedis, by guru Vashishtha.; There 2 children of very young age sent by mathur chaturvedies to ram with the instruction of not acceptaing any Dakshina (gifts) agaist the work so post puja they refused any dakshina and later on insists they accepted pan ka beeda, they had been sent to Saryu par as saja, they called "Saryupani" then during Krishna age to Dwarka is famous migration.

    This is one of the smallest population caste in india (55000 worldwide, by a survey) and most of them are in good living. These chaturvedies served Bhadavar and Farrukhabad Regions on mantri and raja posts (e.g. Holi Singh Chaubey - Mantri of Bhadavar Riyasat, made Delhi Sultnet on knee and received many rewards from them and against the Veertapurn karya "Holi Darwaja" in mathura built and he lived later on in Holipura, Dt. Agra; another example is Raja BUchai singh chaubey of Khiriya Riyasat)

    I myself belong to Vansh of Dhaumya Rishi, who was great sage and guru of Sri krishna followed Holi Singh in my 20th generation.

    thanks again

    anurag chaturvedi

  9. Palagan,
    Thanks for the update brothers thru your comments
    different people have different view point Mr. katju is one of them and has freedom of expression as you and we have I will go with all chaturvedis view poibts that we have heard from our fore fathers